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Barack Obama

Healthcare is available to all in the US. Most people have private health insurance (usually paid for by their employer) and there is a safety net for those that can't afford it. The only thing the current US system lacks is 4 hour waits in A&E. As someone who has lived in both countries, I know which system I prefer.

Obama wants to take the US into a system similar to the UK and Canada, and when you look at the streams of Canadians coming to the US for medical care, you have to wonder why he thinks this is so important. The obvious answer is that he wants to impose a socialist agenda in the US, and the electorate should have seen that coming when they bought into his 'change' nonsense. The healthcare bill, coupled with Cap & Trade and the horrendously wasteful stimulus package will bankrupt the USA, but on the plus side, it will destroy Obama.

George W Bush had enormously high approval numbers post 9/11 - what destroyed him was straying from key Republican principles (the bail-outs, open borders) so that even his base of support were unhappy as well as the granola-eating tree-hugging commie anti-war crowd.

Here Here, you hit the nail on the head!!
 
Just out of interest, if the healthcare bill goes through, does that mean the companies don't have to pay for it anymore? Isn't that a good thing for capitalism - more money to go on the bottom line, instead of employee benefits?
 
On George W Bush's watch we had 9/11, global recession and two extremely long wars, neither of which will be over any time soon. Bush had 8 years to catch Osama bin Laden and failed. He took US-Russian relations to a new low. North Korea and Iran responded to his 'rogue state' taunts by accelerating their nuclear programmes. I could go on.

So far, Osama has attempted to bring in a healthcare programme that the blue half of the country are actually quite keen on. It doesn't seem that bad in comparison.

America's biggest problem is the violent polarisation of political debate. If Obama told the nation that it was raining, half the country would refuse to admit they were getting wet*.
 
On George W Bush's watch we had 9/11, global recession and two extremely long wars, neither of which will be over any time soon. Bush had 8 years to catch Osama bin Laden and failed. He took US-Russian relations to a new low. North Korea and Iran responded to his 'rogue state' taunts by accelerating their nuclear programmes. I could go on.

So far, Osama has attempted to bring in a healthcare programme that the blue half of the country are actually quite keen on. It doesn't seem that bad in comparison.

America's biggest problem is the violent polarisation of political debate. If Obama told the nation that it was raining, half the country would refuse to admit they were getting wet*.

Thats why Bush could not find him, he was planning the heathcare programme right on his doorstep

:D
 
On George W Bush's watch we had 9/11, global recession and two extremely long wars, neither of which will be over any time soon. Bush had 8 years to catch Osama bin Laden and failed. He took US-Russian relations to a new low. North Korea and Iran responded to his 'rogue state' taunts by accelerating their nuclear programmes. I could go on.

So far, Osama has attempted to bring in a healthcare programme that the blue half of the country are actually quite keen on. It doesn't seem that bad in comparison.

America's biggest problem is the violent polarisation of political debate. If Obama told the nation that it was raining, half the country would refuse to admit they were getting wet*.


It's CNN's fault Bin Laden is on the loose. Thats fact. We the Brits found him and the Yanks ****ed it up.
 
On George W Bush's watch we had 9/11, global recession and two extremely long wars, neither of which will be over any time soon. Bush had 8 years to catch Osama bin Laden and failed. He took US-Russian relations to a new low. North Korea and Iran responded to his 'rogue state' taunts by accelerating their nuclear programmes. I could go on.

So far, Osama has attempted to bring in a healthcare programme that the blue half of the country are actually quite keen on. It doesn't seem that bad in comparison.

America's biggest problem is the violent polarisation of political debate. If Obama told the nation that it was raining, half the country would refuse to admit they were getting wet*.

Without wishing to be a Bush apologist, you can hardly blame him for 9/11, the global recession, or the two wars. His Dad, maybe...
 
So far, Osama has attempted to bring in a healthcare programme that the blue half of the country are actually quite keen on.

I'm sorry but that's just not true. In a recent Rasmussen poll, 83% of Americans said they were happy with their healthcare. If the blue half only makes up 17%, then Obama wouldn't have been elected.
 
I'm sorry but that's just not true. In a recent Rasmussen poll, 83% of Americans said they were happy with their healthcare. If the blue half only makes up 17%, then Obama wouldn't have been elected.

But this healthcare plan was the cornerstone of his domestic policy, wasn't it? The blue half must have been onboard otherwise he'd never have made it out of the primaries.
 
Healthcare is available to all in the US. Most people have private health insurance (usually paid for by their employer) and there is a safety net for those that can't afford it. The only thing the current US system lacks is 4 hour waits in A&E. As someone who has lived in both countries, I know which system I prefer.

Obama wants to take the US into a system similar to the UK and Canada, and when you look at the streams of Canadians coming to the US for medical care, you have to wonder why he thinks this is so important. The obvious answer is that he wants to impose a socialist agenda in the US, and the electorate should have seen that coming when they bought into his 'change' nonsense. The healthcare bill, coupled with Cap & Trade and the horrendously wasteful stimulus package will bankrupt the USA, but on the plus side, it will destroy Obama.

George W Bush had enormously high approval numbers post 9/11 - what destroyed him was straying from key Republican principles (the bail-outs, open borders) so that even his base of support were unhappy as well as the granola-eating tree-hugging commie anti-war crowd.

don't know where you've heard this, but from everything I've seen this movement across the boarder is in the other direction. I know a lot of americans living near the boarder who pop over to Canada to pick up some meds.

Rationed health care already exists in the US, it's just for some reason they'd rather it be done by profit driven businesses rather than an organisation charged with delivering best possible care.

Converting the US to a universal HCS may be expensive, but in general countries with a universal HCS spend less, and spend more efficiently.. AND have better health outcomes. Looks to me like a win, win, WIN.

http://www.who.int/whosis/whostat/EN_WHS09_Table7.pdf
These are the WHO's Health Care Expenditure tables. What it tells us is that in 2006 the US spent over 15% of his GDP per capita on health care provision (compared to 8% in the UK). In the US 46% of total HC expenditure was by the government (87% in the UK)... so we're already looking at comparable levels of government expenditure per person between the UK and US, but almost c.20% of Americans are uninsured and receive only an extremely basic emergency service provision if they can make it to an emergency room.

This is reinforced by the table showing that health care expenditure makes up about 16% of the UK total government spending, in the US it's 19%!

The worry for me is if Obama doesn't do it, then I'm not sure if anyone will... how can any future president force through a large but necessary change of government system if Obama can't do it with HC?
 
Just out of interest, if the healthcare bill goes through, does that mean the companies don't have to pay for it anymore? Isn't that a good thing for capitalism - more money to go on the bottom line, instead of employee benefits?

I have to admit that's a possibility, but I don't think American workers would accept a reduction in their total remuneration packages, and any benefit to the economy from removing this expense would quickly be evaporated by the taxation imposed to implement the healthcare plan.
 
That sounds interesting. Pray tell?

Ok, that seems like two stories merged into one. Apparantly the US knew his satellite phone was in use and were tracking it, and thus knew where he was. This then got broadcast on CNN, and funy old thing, it stopped getting used. However, having just found a CNN article online, the story says that phone records were used in a court trial in 1998, that showed OBL's phone details, and thats when the phone stopped being used.

Anyway, this bit is true, that British Special Forces knew where he was post 9/11, but couldn't take him themselves, due to the size of the opposition. The SBS are good, but they only have so much ammunition...

Anyway, they called it in to the US, who then proceeded to land in a totally different place and in the ensuing mahoosive firefight, Bin Laden got away. It's in a book, written by an American - can't for the life of me think what its called.
 
But this healthcare plan was the cornerstone of his domestic policy, wasn't it? The blue half must have been onboard otherwise he'd never have made it out of the primaries.

Healthcare was Hilary's main campaign platform. If it worried Americans so much, surely she would have won?
 
On topic. Obama. Would you have rathered Oven Chips McCain, or heaven forbid- a WOMAN!!! in power. The only reason I can think of to vote for Ms Clinton was the fact that her daughter is fit.
 
don't know where you've heard this, but from everything I've seen this movement across the boarder is in the other direction. I know a lot of americans living near the boarder who pop over to Canada to pick up some meds.

Rationed health care already exists in the US, it's just for some reason they'd rather it be done by profit driven businesses rather than an organisation charged with delivering best possible care.

Converting the US to a universal HCS may be expensive, but in general countries with a universal HCS spend less, and spend more efficiently.. AND have better health outcomes. Looks to me like a win, win, WIN.

http://www.who.int/whosis/whostat/EN_WHS09_Table7.pdf
These are the WHO's Health Care Expenditure tables. What it tells us is that in 2006 the US spent over 15% of his GDP per capita on health care provision (compared to 8% in the UK). In the US 46% of total HC expenditure was by the government (87% in the UK)... so we're already looking at comparable levels of government expenditure per person between the UK and US, but almost c.20% of Americans are uninsured and receive only an extremely basic emergency service provision if they can make it to an emergency room.

This is reinforced by the table showing that health care expenditure makes up about 16% of the UK total government spending, in the US it's 19%!

The worry for me is if Obama doesn't do it, then I'm not sure if anyone will... how can any future president force through a large but necessary change of government system if Obama can't do it with HC?

Some Americans may well cross the border to pick up prescription meds, certain drugs are cheaper in Canada than in the US. However, the waiting list for more involved healthcare in Canada (such as MRI scans) is comparable to the UK, so Canucks head south to pay for immediate attention. Where have I heard this? I've seen it, having lived in both Canada and the US.

You mention basic services being offered in American emergency rooms to the uninsured - do we provide anything better in this country? When a four hour wait time is the target, something is very wrong.

It's a naive and ill-informed judgement to think that only the rich have insurance and receive decent healthcare in the US. Many states have free insurance which is available to those with low incomes. Many younger people simply choose not to have insurance as they feel they are healthy and don't need it. We can question the wisdom of their choice, but I don't question the wisdom of letting them have a choice.
 
On topic. Obama. Would you have rathered Oven Chips McCain, or heaven forbid- a WOMAN!!! in power. The only reason I can think of to vote for Ms Clinton was the fact that her daughter is fit.

I would take Palin over Obama any day of the week. And my guess is that the American people will agree with me in 2012. I'd even take Hilary over Obama. Sometimes it takes a woman to show some balls - never heard of Mrs Thatcher?
 
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