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onceknownasrab

President
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
4,457
I can't help thinking its time for a Barney Rumble and a Freddy Fracas. These players are capable of goals at this level but only if the team play to their strengths. Loza comes in and the team try to find him and exploit his pace. Corr comes on and the team always look for him. Barney and Fred play and are made to look like Billy No Mates.

PB has got some work to do. It is either his game instructions or the midfielders showing complete ignorance that is at risk of throwing this season away.

Will Atkinson grafts like buggery and has managed 2 goals and one assist. From the positions he gets into the assist rate is abysmal.

Michael Timlin the all action dude with 1 goal and three assists. Whoopee!

Ryan Leonard always involved and bagged 5 goals. Not one solitary assist. I know he does so much but from the positions he gets into he has to find players in key positions. Oh and I know he has scored a screamer or two but he seems to think he can do it every game. He can't.

Kevan Hurst has chipped in with 11 goals and twelve assists. On paper thats good. Very good. But he could do so much more. Like Leonard he goes for the shot too many times and always has the obligatory waster high over the crossbar virtually every game. He could add so much more to the assists.

Anthony Straker a nearly man that has weighed in with 2 goals and one assist. If his brain was as quick as his feet he would be divisions higher. Pointless.

Connor Clifford just the 1 goal and no assists. Thanks.

Mark Laird with no goals and 1 assist.

So the assists total seventeen and twelve of those are from one player and then you wonder why the forwards are looking like no hopers?

If this team wants to stay in the play-offs or even win them then the team needs a reality check. Yes midfielders do more than just assist but if they are not supporting the strikers with the right kind of ball in the right position then the forward line is not going to bag the goals we need and don't for one moment think that Barney and Fred don't know where they are supposed position themselves.

The strikers are not to blame for everything.
 
Lenny should have got an assist for Hurst's goal last weekend? I take your point though, and it's what I've been harping on about too.
 
assist stats are patchy at best. certainly not to be relied upon in my opinion.

Fairish point but it remains we have hard working, not untalented mids that are doing nowhere near enough to feed the final third with the kind of ball it needs which differs from player to player up front.
 
in the current style of play though, there isnt a huge amount of width from the midfield (not debating whether thats a good or bad thing, just that its definitely a thing), and so full backs will create a lot of the width and assists.
 
in the current style of play though, there isnt a huge amount of width from the midfield (not debating whether thats a good or bad thing, just that its definitely a thing), and so full backs will create a lot of the width and assists.

In any game we play Leonard, Hurst and Atkinson in particular find themselves in very forward roles and too often play the wrong ball. If I were Barnard or Eastwood I would be very, very annoyed at the lack of service and respect. As yesterday showed when Barney was giving it large to Timlin, quite rightly so, there needs to be a change of ideas in order to get the best from the whole team.

Barney was avoided too often despite the positions he gets into and Fred was played so deep he was never to be considered a part of a front three. PB and the team need to sit down and thrash this out. The team has the ability and now they need to show it. Maybe Fred should explain a few tactics in a dark alleyway to some of the players.
 
I understand your frustration, but why do you think these players are in league 2?

Lets not make league 2 as an excuse. League 2 is a million light years ahead of what is was even two decades ago. The players are not prem quality but they are good enough to pass a ball and pick the better pass more oft than not - not always coming off but at least they could see what to do.. Look at some of the teams we play and see how they feed their strikers with a less quality midfield than our own. They play to their team strengths, or weaknesses, whichever you prefer.
 
Totally agree that just to blame strikers, which people have been doing for months, is over simplistic and ignores the faults of the rest of the team. Team peformances other than Oxford just havent been that good.

We were told that what was missing was pace, yet we add pace and the Oxford game aside not a lot has changed. It was enough to get a convincing win against Oxford and gave the whole team a lift to give us a revival, but even against Torquay we were mediocre and just scraped a win.

That said, out of the 4 strikers we have Corr and Loza are the two that still have the biggest impact and I don't see why you would not start those two as they would benefit just us much from improved service.
 
Totally agree that just to blame strikers, which people have been doing for months, is over simplistic and ignores the faults of the rest of the team. Team peformances other than Oxford just havent been that good.

We were told that what was missing was pace, yet we add pace and the Oxford game aside not a lot has changed. It was enough to get a convincing win against Oxford and gave the whole team a lift to give us a revival, but even against Torquay we were mediocre and just scraped a win.

That said, out of the 4 strikers we have Corr and Loza are the two that still have the biggest impact and I don't see why you would not start those two as they would benefit just us much from improved service.

I was in agreement until the Corr/Loza bit. The may appear to have the best impact but I think that is the fault of the tactics/midfield who play to their strengths and not to those of Barney and Eastwood.
 
I was in agreement until the Corr/Loza bit. The may appear to have the best impact but I think that is the fault of the tactics/midfield who play to their strengths and not to those of Barney and Eastwood.

But surely the tactics will benefit any striker on pitch.

Any striker who gets the ball in better positions will have more chances to score, and as Loza/Corr are doing better already surely their performance will increase as well.

Whilst Loza hasnt exactly set the world alight yesterday he still put in two good crosses and had two decent shots, if he can do that in a team using tactics that Barnard does nothing in imagine what he could do if the team was playing well behind him.
 
I can't help thinking its time for a Barney Rumble and a Freddy Fracas. These players are capable of goals at this level but only if the team play to their strengths. Loza comes in and the team try to find him and exploit his pace. Corr comes on and the team always look for him. Barney and Fred play and are made to look like Billy No Mates.

PB has got some work to do. It is either his game instructions or the midfielders showing complete ignorance that is at risk of throwing this season away.

Will Atkinson grafts like buggery and has managed 2 goals and one assist. From the positions he gets into the assist rate is abysmal.

Michael Timlin the all action dude with 1 goal and three assists. Whoopee!

Ryan Leonard always involved and bagged 5 goals. Not one solitary assist. I know he does so much but from the positions he gets into he has to find players in key positions. Oh and I know he has scored a screamer or two but he seems to think he can do it every game. He can't.

Kevan Hurst has chipped in with 11 goals and twelve assists. On paper thats good. Very good. But he could do so much more. Like Leonard he goes for the shot too many times and always has the obligatory waster high over the crossbar virtually every game. He could add so much more to the assists.

Anthony Straker a nearly man that has weighed in with 2 goals and one assist. If his brain was as quick as his feet he would be divisions higher. Pointless.

Connor Clifford just the 1 goal and no assists. Thanks.

Mark Laird with no goals and 1 assist.

So the assists total seventeen and twelve of those are from one player and then you wonder why the forwards are looking like no hopers?

If this team wants to stay in the play-offs or even win them then the team needs a reality check. Yes midfielders do more than just assist but if they are not supporting the strikers with the right kind of ball in the right position then the forward line is not going to bag the goals we need and don't for one moment think that Barney and Fred don't know where they are supposed position themselves.

The strikers are not to blame for everything.

Where have you come from........... not one assist?? I can recall without even thinking deeply that he has had at least six assist. Two last week for goodness sake! He's assisted Hurst, Corr and Freddie to goals this season - and he has 7 goals, second highest goalscorer too! Do some research before you spout off!
 
Where have you come from........... not one assist?? I can recall without even thinking deeply that he has had at least six assist. Two last week for goodness sake! He's assisted Hurst, Corr and Freddie to goals this season - and he has 7 goals, second highest goalscorer too! Do some research before you spout off!

Not in the league,according to :
http://espnfc.com/stats/assists/_/league/eng.4/english-league-two?cc=5739

However as you say he definitely had two last week, so more than nil!
 
Where have you come from........... not one assist?? I can recall without even thinking deeply that he has had at least six assist. Two last week for goodness sake! He's assisted Hurst, Corr and Freddie to goals this season - and he has 7 goals, second highest goalscorer too! Do some research before you spout off!

Well maybe you should do some research. I am talking league goals of which he has five and according to the stats http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/146223/ryan-leonard?cc=5739 he is not credited with assists. Whether you want to pick pathetic little holes in everything or not it is abundantly clear he and others have not done enough of what is needed.
 
But surely the tactics will benefit any striker on pitch.

Any striker who gets the ball in better positions will have more chances to score, and as Loza/Corr are doing better already surely their performance will increase as well.

Whilst Loza hasnt exactly set the world alight yesterday he still put in two good crosses and had two decent shots, if he can do that in a team using tactics that Barnard does nothing in imagine what he could do if the team was playing well behind him.

And no the tactics will not benefit any striker on the pitch. Corr wants it to his head and loza wants it in the channels and behind so he can run on to it. Freddy and Barney want it in the space they make for themselves. Totally different.
 
And no the tactics will not benefit any striker on the pitch. Corr wants it to his head and loza wants it in the channels and behind so he can run on to it. Freddy and Barney want it in the space they make for themselves. Totally different.

So why is one better than the other?

Why should we have to adapt tactics to the two players who are performing worse than the other two ?

Why cant we look to make the most of Loza's pace and get a few more crosses in for Corr to attack?

There is no way we are going to be playing Eastwood and Barnard up front, we would have to change far more and perform far better to benefit them. Loza for example did far more than Barnard and we certainly werent playing to his strengths yesterday, he was coming deep for the ball and rarely ran into channels.

The team needs to play better but I can see us managing to get performances out of Loza/Corr far easier than Barnard/Eastwood (the latter of whom isnt going to be playing 90 minutes anyway)
 
So why is one better than the other?

Why should we have to adapt tactics to the two players who are performing worse than the other two ?

Why cant we look to make the most of Loza's pace and get a few more crosses in for Corr to attack?

There is no way we are going to be playing Eastwood and Barnard up front, we would have to change far more and perform far better to benefit them. Loza for example did far more than Barnard and we certainly werent playing to his strengths yesterday, he was coming deep for the ball and rarely ran into channels.

The team needs to play better but I can see us managing to get performances out of Loza/Corr far easier than Barnard/Eastwood (the latter of whom isnt going to be playing 90 minutes anyway)

I'm afraid your thoughts are a case of locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. We have played Barnard and Eastwood but have never played to their strengths and thus wasted opportunity and made both of them look mugs. Ok stick with Corr. He has had plenty of opportunity and is not scintillating. Even yesterday he spurned chances and was wayward with passes. What if he is crocked tomorrow? Barney or Eastwood come in and the team cannot/ will not play to them. PB and the tactics have let those players down and the fans.
 
I'm afraid your thoughts are a case of locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. We have played Barnard and Eastwood but have never played to their strengths and thus wasted opportunity and made both of them look mugs. Ok stick with Corr. He has had plenty of opportunity and is not scintillating. Even yesterday he spurned chances and was wayward with passes. What if he is crocked tomorrow? Barney or Eastwood come in and the team cannot/ will not play to them. PB and the tactics have let those players down and the fans.

Can you elaborate on what Barnard and Eastwood's strengths are and how we should be using them in a way that they would do better than Loza/Corr.

Other than giving them the ball in the box, which Loza and Corr would both benefit from as well Im not sure how they would be a better option as we then lose out on Loza's pace and Corr's threat in the air.
 
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Can you elaborate on what Barnard and Eastwood's strengths are and how we should be using them in a way that they would do better than Loza/Corr.

Other than giving them the ball in the box, which Loza and Corr would both benefit from as well Im not sure how they would be a better option as we then lose out on Loza's pace and Corr's threat in the air.

Ball to feet!!! Simple, really! Stop lobbing the ball up high in anticipation of (a) Corr winning the header or
(b) Loza running onto it! So exasperating!
 
I appreciate the debate but Barnard isn't worth a place in the starting line up and probably hasn't been since he arrived. First touch is poor, awareness in the box poor. He is not the player he was and from what I have I seen so far he may never be again. Think it would be agamble to signhim, but then again a full pre season may make a difference.
Eastwood within the space of 5 minutes of coming on at least found space and the ball in the box. One shot blocked and one high and mighty over the South Stand. He is light years in front of Barnard at the moment.
 
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