Being called up by England after 3 Premier League starts

[Yorkshire Blue]

Forget the Fourth & Upwards Cup Knockout European Revenue Securing League results, is there any greater indictment of English football than the lack of depth that leads to this?

 

[EastStandBlue]

Think Alli’s a bit of a unique case in unique circumstances. Long been heralded as an England player in the making, represented every age group up until the senior side and actually has circa 100 senior appearances under his belt – probably far more than your average England debutant. I think it’s more a case of ensuring Alli’s familiar with the set-up if he continues his trajectory this season and is considered for a place on the Eurostar this summer.

Of perhaps more surprise/concern is that Hodgson has been to Spurs’ last three games and hasn’t spotted that the hugely versatile Eric Dier has been amongst their best players.

 

[Uncle Leo]

I've seen that Alli (who does look a talented kid) has been called up, but nothing else.

Has Hodgson offered any explanation, e.g. he's only being called up to get experience around an international squad?

At face value, this certainly seems a hasty call and not a good reflection of the talent that is out there. We're not far away from being English and playing for a Prem club being a cast-iron guarantee of an international call-up (as opposed to merely given the player an excellent chance)

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Think Alli’s a bit of a unique case in unique circumstances. Long been heralded as an England player in the making, represented every age group up until the senior side and actually has circa 100 senior appearances under his belt – probably far more than your average England debutant. I think it’s more a case of ensuring Alli’s familiar with the set-up if he continues his trajectory this season and is considered for a place on the Eurostar this summer.

Of perhaps more surprise/concern is that Hodgson has been to Spurs’ last three games and hasn’t spotted that the hugely versatile Eric Dier has been amongst their best players.

100 senior appearances at League One level. He wasn't close to the full squad then, but three starts in the EPL and he is? He might be a cracking player - I hadn't even heard of him, let alone seen him play - but he's not even someone who's really graduated from the U21s as he has had just 2 appearances for them.

There have been several others in the last year or two who seem to get called up with very little EPL experience.

 

[EastStandBlue]

100 senior appearances at League One level.

Where would you place the Estonian and Lithuanian national teams in England's league hierachy?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Where would you place the Estonian and Lithuanian national teams in England's league hierachy?

No idea, but Hodgson certainly wasn't scouting him in League One.

Hodgson's picked him on the back of 3 EPL starts (and a Europa League match against FK Qarabag (no, me neither)). The issue is clearly one of sample size. Are three good matches (if, he was even good in all three - he was subbed in one) really all it takes to be called up?

I'm for promoting the youngsters, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that you need a greater body of evidence before rewarding them with a cap.

 

[Uncle Leo]

No idea, but Hodgson certainly wasn't scouting him in League One.

Maybe not Hodgson in person, but it seems probable that someone working for the FA was.

 

[Jim Levenstein]

No harm in playing, we've qualified - if he excels then it's a great pick if he doesn't and then goes into the u21's there's no harm done

 

[Ricey]

What's it matter if he is an in form player then he should be picked. Alli has only recently got into the team due to the injury to Ryan Mason who probably would've taken his England place had he not got injured. Alli has been about for years and touted to be bought by big clubs for many seasons but MK held onto him a while it's done his development no harm. Having seen him first had in the match I watched he looked a class above in league one and no doubt will do well if he keeps progressing.

He's playing well albeit in a small amount of games, what's the issue? People moan when we don't give youth a chance and moan when we do. Poor old Woy can't do anything right, people will still moan if we win the Euros.

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Surprised Eric Dier didnt get a call up, has been Spurs best player.

 

[Napster]

Surprised Eric Dier didnt get a call up, has been Spurs best player.

Ted Croker's grandson as well, surely nepotism must help?

 

[Napster]

against FK Qarabag (no, me neither))..

5p a go soon.

 

[southendkid]

Hodgson can't win can he? People moan he only picks players from the 'big' teams even if they never play, now he picks an inform player from a smaller team and people say he shouldn't. It's not like this game means anything to us, let the guy have a chance to show what he can do.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I'm not knocking Hodgson so much as I'm knocking the talent pool available to him.

And Spurs are hardly a smaller team unless you think players can only be picked from 4 teams.

I think three starts (and he was subbed in one of them!) is too small a sample size to base an international call-up on. I think it devalues the achievement of winning a cap. I think younger players need to build a larger resume at club or U21 level before being promoted.

Otherwise we get to the situation where flash in the pans like Ricketts, non-entities like Zat Knight, Gavin McCann, Andy Gray and Anthony Gardner get England caps.

 

[Firestorm]

Peter Taylor played for England whilst he was at Palace in teir 3

 

[EastStandBlue]

I'm not knocking Hodgson so much as I'm knocking the talent pool available to him.

And Spurs are hardly a smaller team unless you think players can only be picked from 4 teams.

I think three starts (and he was subbed in one of them!) is too small a sample size to base an international call-up on. I think it devalues the achievement of winning a cap. I think younger players need to build a larger resume at club or U21 level before being promoted.

Otherwise we get to the situation where flash in the pans like Ricketts, non-entities like Zat Knight, Gavin McCann, Andy Gray and Anthony Gardner get England caps.

With all due respect YB, you've openly admitted to not having seen him play so I think your criticism of his selection has to be tempered some what.

Alli's a player who's had a meteoric rise in the sense that whatever's been thrown at him, he's taken in his stride. He hasn't looked overawed and he hasn't struggled to keep his place in Spurs' side. From what I've seen of him, he looks comfortable at a Premier League level so it's of little wonder Hodgson wants to see him further. He hasn't found his level yet and, given the injuries to Wilshere and Delph, now seems to be as good a time as any to see if he's ready for the international stage or not.

Also, what's wrong with testing so-called "flash in the pans" in meaningless games like these? At worst, it's prevented someone equally as untested getting a call-up. At best, we've identified someone who'll adapt to international football at an early age.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Peter Taylor played for England whilst he was at Palace in teir 3

And Steve Bull (Wolves of course, not Palace)

 

[davewebbsbrain]

I've seen that Alli (who does look a talented kid) has been called up, but nothing else.

Has Hodgson offered any explanation, e.g. he's only being called up to get experience around an international squad?

At face value, this certainly seems a hasty call and not a good reflection of the talent that is out there. We're not far away from being English and playing for a Prem club being a cast-iron guarantee of an international call-up (as opposed to merely given the player an excellent chance)

Spurs supporting mate reckons Alli will be a massive star. Shining in the spurs team already

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

With all due respect YB, you've openly admitted to not having seen him play so I think your criticism of his selection has to be tempered some what.

Alli's a player who's had a meteoric rise in the sense that whatever's been thrown at him, he's taken in his stride. He hasn't looked overawed and he hasn't struggled to keep his place in Spurs' side. From what I've seen of him, he looks comfortable at a Premier League level so it's of little wonder Hodgson wants to see him further. He hasn't found his level yet and, given the injuries to Wilshere and Delph, now seems to be as good a time as any to see if he's ready for the international stage or not.

Also, what's wrong with testing so-called "flash in the pans" in meaningless games like these? At worst, it's prevented someone equally as untested getting a call-up. At best, we've identified someone who'll adapt to international football at an early age.

It's not about what I've seen of him, it's about what the management has seen of him - he's only played twice for the u21s. It's like when England selected Darren Pattinson in the cricket after 11 fc matches. They had no idea if he could handle the workload as he'd never bowled more than 15 overs in a second innings before. You might have grounds for optimism but you just haven't got a big enough sample size to draw meaningful conclusions from.

An England cap should be something to aspire to, something to strive for. It greatly devalues it when you hand them out like confetti. I think this has contributed to England duty being downgraded amongst some players. It's no longer the pinnacle when you get given a cap as soon as you're given your Premiership debut.

FWIW I'd be in favour of only awarding caps for competitive fixtures.

And Steve Bull (Wolves of course, not Palace)

That's hardly an argument in favour!

 

[Beefy]

100 senior appearances at League One level. He wasn't close to the full squad then, but three starts in the EPL and he is? He might be a cracking player - I hadn't even heard of him, let alone seen him play - but he's not even someone who's really graduated from the U21s as he has had just 2 appearances for them.

There have been several others in the last year or two who seem to get called up with very little EPL experience.

He is quality and in a position where we're struggling with injuries. I like both his call up and that of Danny Ings who has graduated the U21s and is now ready to step up to the main squad.