Bloody Sunday victims all innocent

[Pubey]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/10321886.stm

From the PM:

- No warning had been given to any civilians before the soldiers opened fire
None of the soldiers fired in response to attacks by petrol bombers or stone throwers
- Some of those killed or injured were clearly fleeing or going to help those injured or dying
- None of the casualties was posing a threat or doing anything that would justify their shooting
- There was no point in trying to soften or equivocate - the events of Bloody Sunday were not justified
- Many of the soldiers lied about their actions
- What happened should never, ever have happened
- Some members of the British armed forces acted wrongly
- On behalf of the government and the country, he said he was "deeply sorry"
- The events of Bloody Sunday were not premeditated
- Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness, Sinn Fein, was present at the time of the violence and "probably armed with a submachine gun" but did not engage in "any activity that provided any of the soldiers with any justification for opening fire"

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Can somebody pay me to investigate (for 12 years) the Cumbrian Shootings?
I'm sure I could come up with an equalling damning verdict that "all victims were innocent" :p

 

[Cricko]

Can somebody pay me to investigate (for 12 years) the Cumbrian Shootings?
I'm sure I could come up with an equalling damning verdict that "all victims were innocent" :p

Would the £200 mill this cost be enough for you though mate.....I must list the amount of bloody days we had in the UK courtesy of the IRA.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Would the £200 mill this cost be enough for you though mate.....

Hmmm, maybe make it £250m and you've got a deal - I might even advance Uncle Ron 1% ;)

 

[pickledseal]

Not really surprising findings.
It was a terrible event which only spurred on the IRA. Who were ultimately responsible for many terrible events back in the days when it was Catholics who were the terrorists, not the Muslims....

I hope it helps people some find their peace, but I fear now this is just the beginning of further blame, responsibility and compensation.

 

[J]

Oh yes, innoecent. Surely.

Martin McGuinnes is still suspected of being armed.

David Cameron has lost a little respect fromme today... so in 20 years time, do we apologise to the Iraqis for destroying the **** hole they lived in and leaving them with a safer society.. or the Afghan's for the killings of their local taliban friends...

This is bollox. The day we have bowed to Irish fenian terrorists.

 

[osymandus]

Oh yes, innoecent. Surely.

Martin McGuinnes is still suspected of being armed.

David Cameron has lost a little respect fromme today... so in 20 years time, do we apologise to the Iraqis for destroying the **** hole they lived in and leaving them with a safer society.. or the Afghan's for the killings of their local taliban friends...

This is bollox. The day we have bowed to Irish fenian terrorists.

If we did it by shooting unarmed dying people in the back then i dowt he has lost any respect by apologising for the screw up.

 

[OldBlueLady]

- Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness, Sinn Fein, was present at the time of the violence and "probably armed with a submachine gun" but did not engage in "any activity that provided any of the soldiers with any justification for opening fire"

So that makes it ok then does it? Makes me so cross, why must we keep apologising for things that happened in a different climate to the world in which we live in now. The whole debacle over apologising over our "part" in the African slave trade was equally as pointless. It certainly never warranted the expense of the investigation that's gone on.....let me guess who instigated it? 12 years ago......now I wonder.............

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Oh yes, innoecent. Surely.

Martin McGuinnes is still suspected of being armed.

David Cameron has lost a little respect fromme today... so in 20 years time, do we apologise to the Iraqis for destroying the **** hole they lived in and leaving them with a safer society.. or the Afghan's for the killings of their local taliban friends...

This is bollox. The day we have bowed to Irish fenian terrorists.

If only I could give you green now. Totally agree with you J.

I don't know the politics of it, but marauding gangs throwing missiles, Molotov cocktails etc at the forces was ok was it. Should the army have laid down and be murdered by the mob. I would have opened fire in that situation to protect myself.

 

[MK Shrimper]

If only I could give you green now. Totally agree with you J.

I don't know the politics of it, but marauding gangs throwing missiles, Molotov cocktails etc at the forces was ok was it. Should the army have laid down and be murdered by the mob. I would have opened fire in that situation to protect myself.

It was a civil rights march.

Why am I not surprised that the right wing brigade on here can't ever see that the British Army can't do any wrong? David Cameron can, but I suppose he had the facts rather than just your bog standard knee jerk reaction.

 

[OldBlueLady]

It was a civil rights march.

Why am I not surprised that the right wing brigade on here can't ever see that the British Army can't do any wrong? David Cameron can, but I suppose he had the facts rather than just your bog standard knee jerk reaction.

That's not the issue for me here Paul, although the argument that they were "doing their job" has some bearing. I just completely fail to see the point in a costly 12 year investigation, that was bound to come up with the verdict it did in this era of political correctness.

My father in law did two stints out there while serving in the Army and I know from talking to him that the constant fear of confrontation and threat and intimidation meant that the army were hardly going to try and engage in conversation on this occasion. If you behave in a way that imitates an illegal or infammatory act then you have to accept the consequences.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

It was a civil rights march.

Why am I not surprised that the right wing brigade on here can't ever see that the British Army can't do any wrong? David Cameron can, but I suppose he had the facts rather than just your bog standard knee jerk reaction.

You use you legs and feet to march. I have seen the videos and that was no march. That was an insurgency attacking the army.

 

[pickledseal]

I also think the whole problem with this investigation was that it was highly emotive, and both sides had a lot to gain by making out the other were 'baddies'. So many 'unnamed sources' are used in the report, and so the whole Martin McGuinnes with a 'tommy gun' story comes from these people. Many have suggested this was a farcical image. I don't think we'll ever truly know but every photo of him on that day he is shown as unarmed... and I always thought it was hard to put a 'tommy gun' in your jacket pocket.

It was a bad time all round, however on this event I do think the army got it wrong, yet not sure at what level. I do not disbelieve that the soldiers who were working in difficult times and were genuinely in fear of the crowd, but questions need to be asked further up the line of command in my mind. It did end up in a 'frenzy' where people were shot dead when running away and helping others that were dying. That's not right, ever.

However as I said before, this single event did SO much damage to the peace process... it was pure ammunition to Provisional IRA and they had a massive successful recruitment drive after it. Consequently, more people died as a result, including British soldiers.

I just hope we can now move on and work towards even greater peace in N Ireland and never return to those dark days.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Justice was done although rather late.:soapbox:
I would hope(but don't expect)some of the troops concerned(at least those who aren't dead)to face criminal charges from the DPP.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Justice was done although rather late.:soapbox:
I would hope(but don't expect)some of the troops concerned(at least those who aren't dead)to face criminal charges from the DPP.

Do you deliberately post to create waves of anger? I think the troops concerned have probably served their sentence in mental torment for this and other incidents over their time in service, they were just men following orders FFS!

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Justice was done although rather late.:soapbox:
I would hope(but don't expect)some of the troops concerned(at least those who aren't dead)to face criminal charges from the DPP.

If the troops hadn't fought back, they would have been dead. Many many were blown up on duty by the IRA, people in England were murdered by the IRA. Your comment sickens me, it really does.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Do you deliberately post to create waves of anger? I think the troops concerned have probably served their sentence in mental torment for this and other incidents over their time in service, they were just men following orders FFS!

Nope.I just happen to believe in the rule of law.After all,that's what democracy is supposed to be all about,isn't it?:unsure:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

If the troops hadn't fought back, they would have been dead. Many many were blown up on duty by the IRA, people in England were murdered by the IRA. Your comment sickens me, it really does.

um..how do you fight back against unarmed civilians exactly?:unsure:

 

[Uncle Leo]

Nope.I just happen to believe in the rule of law.After all,that's what democracy is supposed to be all about,isn't it?:unsure:

As do I. However, we've got a rather different situation in Northern Ireland. Dozens of people have had jail terms cut drastically short as part of the peace process. To start prosecuting the troops from Bloody Sunday means starting to dig things up again and who knows where that will lead? Calls to re-imprison convicted terrorists or re-open closed cases will become deafening.

The families of the victims have what (by and large) they were wishing for - the truth - and we should be glad for that. Now is the time to finally draw a veil over this horrible episode.

 

[Smudger]

um..how do you fight back against unarmed civilians exactly?:unsure:

Oh yes, of course all those there were unarmed and not posing any threat. It may be that those killed were innocents and that is a tragedy....but the likes of Scumbag McGuinness and his gun-toting IRA chums brought it upon their own people on that day and for many a year afterwards. The Paras are not known for their restraint - they're an elite fighting force - the IRA knew that and chose to engage.

I swear you live in a left wing fantasy land....we'd all be speaking German if everyone else thought as meekly as you appear to.