Brexit negotiations thread

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yes, as I said, Labour's position appears to be BINO (Full access to the Single Market and Customs union) https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-whats-labours-position-on-the-single-market ...........still waiting for someone to explain two things. Firstly, how does that fulfill the spirit of Brexit and satisfy those who voted to leave the EU? Secondly, and even more importantly, how can you stand with a straight and honest face, claiming that you can get a good deal when it will be vastly inferior to what we already have in the EU?
As far as the internal wrangles within the Labour Party go..........that's not my affair. You are entitled to believe that antisemitism and candidate selection are minor issues of no consequence. I only pointed it out because not everyone may view it in that way and it is likely to be a factor in the next election. There are three other reasons Labour may not find the next election 'a walk in the park' 1) Corbyn is likely to be put under far more scrutiny, I doubt he'll have as easy a ride as last time. 2) Don't know whether the proposed boundary changes will come into effect before the poll........if so, it won't help Labour or the Lib Dems. 3) I can't believe the Tories will make such a mess of a campaign as last time.

1.Currently reading an account of the 2017 GE.Interestingly,Mrs May herself (and her staffers) decided not to unleash some dirt they had on JC.No reason to assume it'll be any different next time around.Even if it isn't, these sort of historical tropes are easily dismissed.

2.As I understand it, the proposed boundary changes will only come into effect if HMG serves a full term.

3.True but Labour would be well advised to opt for an attack policy next time around, rather than merely a defensive one, ie concentrating on retaining Labour heartland seats as in 2017. That effectively cost Labour the 15 seats they would have needed to win outright.

In answer to your Brexit points.1.Both Labour and the Tories at the last GE issued manifestos which promised to uphold the referendum result and take the UK out of the EU.
2.Don't think I've heard anyone claim that whatever deal the UK makes with the EU will be superior to the one we already have within the EU and outside the Euro etc.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

1.Currently reading an account of the 2017 GE.Interestingly,Mrs May herself (and her staffers) decided not to unleash some dirt they had on JC.No reason to assume it'll be any different next time around.Even if it isn't, these sort of historical tropes are easily dismissed.

2.As I understand it, the proposed boundary changes will only come into effect if HMG serves a full term.

3.True but Labour would be well advised to opt for an attack policy next time around, rather than merely a defensive one, ie concentrating on retaining Labour heartland seats as in 2017. That effectively cost Labour the 15 seats they would have needed to win outright.

In answer to your Brexit points.1.Both Labour and the Tories at the last GE issued manifestos which promised to uphold the referendum result and take the UK out of the EU.
2.Don't think I've heard anyone claim that whatever deal the UK makes with the EU will be superior to the one we already have within the EU and outside the Euro etc.

I've read my posts through again and, as far as I can see, I've never said that Labour would get a superior deal to the one we already have in the EU. I said they would get an even more BINO deal than the Tories and then asked how they could get a good deal when it will be inferior to the one we presently have in the EU. Still waiting for a response on how BINO upholds the spirit of the referendum result? and how you can argue the benifits of any deal vastly inferior to the one we have at the moment. Can't see how the Labour solution would please either side.
It's so difficult to predict what is going to be the outcome of this catastrophy but I just have a sneaking feeling thay May, when she is cornered, in spite of all her denials (didn't she say we wouldn't have a General Electiopn last year?) will suddenly decide that a second referendum may be a better deal than another General Election.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I've read my posts through again and, as far as I can see, I've never said that Labour would get a superior deal to the one we already have in the EU. I said they would get an even more BINO deal than the Tories and then asked how they could get a good deal when it will be inferior to the one we presently have in the EU. Still waiting for a response on how BINO upholds the spirit of the referendum result? and how you can argue the benifits of any deal vastly inferior to the one we have at the moment. Can't see how the Labour solution would please either side.
It's so difficult to predict what is going to be the outcome of this catastrophy but I just have a sneaking feeling thay May, when she is cornered, in spite of all her denials (didn't she say we wouldn't have a General Electiopn last year?) will suddenly decide that a second referendum may be a better deal than another General Election.

Surely the fact that both major parties made manifesto pledges to take the UK out of the EU back in 2017 honours "the spirit of the referendum result?"

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Surely the fact that both major parties made manifesto pledges to take the UK out of the EU back in 2017 honours "the spirit of the referendum result?"

BINO is what it is and I don't believe it's what the great majority of people had in mind when they voted leave. Far from preventing the resurrection of the right and UKIP, Labour's solution would have the opposite effect.............it would positively encourage them

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

BINO is what it is and I don't believe it's what the great majority of people had in mind when they voted leave. Far from preventing the resurrection of the right and UKIP, Labour's solution would have the opposite effect.............it would positively encourage them

It seems to me that what you're really arguing, is that we'd be better off remaining in the EU rather than opting for Brexit in Name Only.While I might be prepared to agree with you, on a personal basis, that cannot in any way be described as respecting the 2016 referendum result,in which a (small) majority clearly voted for Brexit.

I should add that though I feel the referendum vote to be an historic mistake, I think it imperative that the verdict of the British people be respected.We should leave the EU but stay as close to it as possible.I imagine that in the fullness of time a future generation will reverse this mistaken decision.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Barna, surely the only way you can properly respect the referendum result is a hard Brexit, with all the consequences that would entail. A fudge that ties us to the EU, as a rule taker without a voice in the rule making is a terrible situation and to argue (very debatably) that this respects what the (small) majority voted for in 2016 is deceitful............hardly 'getting our country back!' What I am asking is what advantage that situation has over the position we presently have in the EU?..................as far as I see it's vastly inferior.
We were promised (2016) a clear and easy drive along a motorway with sun all the way. Suddenly, you find (2018) that ahead there a 50 miles of hold-ups, heavy storms and difficult driving conditions, with (the possibility........only the possibility) of fine weather after that. You have the option to leave the motorway at the next turn off...........do you take it? So, in brief, the world has changed so much since June 2016, the easy departure from the EU, without complications, is anythiing but. The kind of Brexit the leave camp promised is undeliverable.........the vast complications and cost of the exercise are, only now, becoming apparent. The only democratic option (for Brexit) is a second referendum. People can see and understand the issues far more clearly now. If it returned a leave vote, fair enough.........you wouldn't hear another peep of protest from me..............at least people will have understood exactly what they are voting for.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Barna, surely the only way you can properly respect the referendum result is a hard Brexit, with all the consequences that would entail. A fudge that ties us to the EU, as a rule taker without a voice in the rule making is a terrible situation and to argue (very debatably) that this respects what the (small) majority voted for in 2016 is deceitful............hardly 'getting our country back!' What I am asking is what advantage that situation has over the position we presently have in the EU?..................as far as I see it's vastly inferior.
We were promised (2016) a clear and easy drive along a motorway with sun all the way. Suddenly, you find (2018) that ahead there a 50 miles of hold-ups, heavy storms and difficult driving conditions, with (the possibility........only the possibility) of fine weather after that. You have the option to leave the motorway at the next turn off...........do you take it? So, in brief, the world has changed so much since June 2016, the easy departure from the EU, without complications, is anythiing but. The kind of Brexit the leave camp promised is undeliverable.........the vast complications and cost of the exercise are, only now, becoming apparent. The only democratic option (for Brexit) is a second referendum. People can see and understand the issues far more clearly now. If it returned a leave vote, fair enough.........you wouldn't hear another peep of protest from me..............at least people will have understood exactly what they are voting for.

Yogi,Like you I wasn't able to vote in the referendum.Obviously had I been able to, I would have voted remain,just like you (I imagine).As such we'd have been part of the 48% (or more?) who didn't want to leave the EU.Again as such,I see no inconsistency in wanting to remain as close as possible to the EU as possible,without actually being a member state.Don't think any rational politician would have opted for this state of affairs but as they say, this is where we are.

 

[Smudger]

Al this Brexit stuff.....it will all turn out fine in a few years whatever happens. We are the world's 4th largest economy, not Macedonia. Massive fuss about nothing.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yogi,Like you I wasn't able to vote in the referendum.Obviously had I been able to, I would have voted remain,just like you (I imagine).As such we'd have been part of the 48% (or more?) who didn't want to leave the EU.Again as such,I see no inconsistency in wanting to remain as close as possible to the EU as possible,without actually being a member state.Don't think any rational politician would have opted for this state of affairs but as they say, this is where we are.

As someone (like you) who's worked in a EU state other than the UK for a number of years,I don't "want my country back",thanks.What I do want is to continue to enjoy as many rights as possible of living in the EU for as long as possible.Quite frankly, I doubt if the UK leaving the EU will make much material difference to my own life or that of our children.However,as I've said before,I still think the decision is a massive mistake,which a future generation of Brits will get the chance to reverse.

 

[Member]

Al this Brexit stuff.....it will all turn out fine in a few years whatever happens. We are the world's 4th largest economy, not Macedonia. Massive fuss about nothing.

Not according to the IMF, World Bank, or UN.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Al this Brexit stuff.....it will all turn out fine in a few years whatever happens. We are the world's 4th largest economy, not Macedonia. Massive fuss about nothing.

That may be your perspective from Dubai but I'm not sure it's a realistic one in today's inter-related world.

 

[dcblue]

The only problem we have with the negotiations is that our parliament has a majority of remainers, many of whom have tried to reverse brexit. No wonder the whole process has been seen to be difficult, especially with our current PM, who has failed to show any leadership qualities. The leave voters are being badly let down and, in my opinion, they will not forget or forgive parliament, never mind the government. If Brexit becomes BRINO there will be repercussions that will shake Westminster to it's core. Oh and I am a leaver and Tory member who joined recently, just in case there is a leadership challenge.

 

[MK Shrimper]

The only problem we have with the negotiations is that our parliament has a majority of remainers, many of whom have tried to reverse brexit. No wonder the whole process has been seen to be difficult, especially with our current PM, who has failed to show any leadership qualities. The leave voters are being badly let down and, in my opinion, they will not forget or forgive parliament, never mind the government. If Brexit becomes BRINO there will be repercussions that will shake Westminster to it's core. Oh and I am a leaver and Tory member who joined recently, just in case there is a leadership challenge.

What are they then?

 

[Lord Football]

The only problem we have with the negotiations is that our parliament has a majority of remainers, many of whom have tried to reverse brexit. No wonder the whole process has been seen to be difficult, especially with our current PM, who has failed to show any leadership qualities. The leave voters are being badly let down and, in my opinion, they will not forget or forgive parliament, never mind the government. If Brexit becomes BRINO there will be repercussions that will shake Westminster to it's core. Oh and I am a leaver and Tory member who joined recently, just in case there is a leadership challenge.

That's a pretty fair anology. The Tory PM is crap, there are bags of entryists from UKIP joining the Party to put a Brexiteer in charge and no one has a plan.

Meanwhile, we have less than 200 days to make something work or find a method of not crashing out.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

That's a pretty fair anology. The Tory PM is crap, there are bags of entryists from UKIP joining the Party to put a Brexiteer in charge and no one has a plan.

Meanwhile, we have less than 200 days to make something work or find a method of not crashing out.

Surely, apart from that, there is no problem then?

 

[Benfleet A1]

What's BRINO?

 

[MK Shrimper]

What's BRINO?

I think he was in Gladiators?












Brexit in name only.

 

[rigsby]

As someone (like you) who's worked in a EU state other than the UK for a number of years,I don't "want my country back",thanks.What I do want is to continue to enjoy as many rights as possible of living in the EU for as long as possible.Quite frankly, I doubt if the UK leaving the EU will make much material difference to my own life or that of our children.However,as I've said before,I still think the decision is a massive mistake,which a future generation of Brits will get the chance to reverse.

You may be shocked to hear this Tangled but none of us were thinking about you when we voted. Leave or remain, we voted for what we thought was the best for our families and the future of the people who live and work in Great Britain.

 

[Lord Football]

What's BRINO?

Brexit In Name Only

 

[Lord Football]

You may be shocked to hear this Tangled but none of us were thinking about you when we voted. Leave or remain, we voted for what we thought was the best for our families and the future of the people who live and work in Great Britain.

Great Britain, but not the United Kingdom it seems.......