• Welcome to the ShrimperZone forums.
    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which only gives you limited access.

    Existing Users:.
    Please log-in using your existing username and password. If you have any problems, please see below.

    New Users:
    Join our free community now and gain access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and free. Click here to join.

    Fans from other clubs
    We welcome and appreciate supporters from other clubs who wish to engage in sensible discussion. Please feel free to join as above but understand that this is a moderated site and those who cannot play nicely will be quickly removed.

    Assistance Required
    For help with the registration process or accessing your account, please send a note using the Contact us link in the footer, please include your account name. We can then provide you with a new password and verification to get you on the site.

Brexit negotiations thread

I will respectfully suggest that pretty much everything you wrote in that post is incorrect.

In seriousness, I thank you for your courteous and measured reply, I think I said some fairly hard things. Even as an exile I hate this government and am desperate to see it replaced, I just don't think Corbyn will do it. The most worrying thing, as I indicated above, it's not just about the policies....... it's the man. That problem is a difficult one to solve and I'm afraid there are many who feel that way and that is not just restricted to obvious critics like the Mail, Express and Torygraph. An important question is that, whilst I may not be accepting of all the policies with a leader like Michael Foot or Tony Benn, why could I be persuaded to vote for them, when that is not the case with Corbyn?
 
a sweeping statement not supported by the results of the last GE. I give the public a little bit more credit than you do for not being so gullible these days about the vicious lies peddled by the Mail and The Sun and sadly the BBC. The middle ground is a myth created by the right wing media which really means the narrow prism of views to the right of centre but not quite extending to Farage and his extremists.

If Farage is the extent of far right extremists in this country then I don’t think we need to worry too much.
Try looking to France, Germany, Italy and beyond if you want to talk about the far right. The middle ground does exist despite what you say and the politicians who take it usually end up governing. Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbot etc won’t govern because they don’t occupy it. Bring in a moderate and Labour would win - sorry but from where I’m looking it’s blatantly obvious.
 
In seriousness, I thank you for your courteous and measured reply, I think I said some fairly hard things. Even as an exile I hate this government and am desperate to see it replaced, I just don't think Corbyn will do it. The most worrying thing, as I indicated above, it's not just about the policies....... it's the man. That problem is a difficult one to solve and I'm afraid there are many who feel that way and that is not just restricted to obvious critics like the Mail, Express and Torygraph. An important question is that, whilst I may not be accepting of all the policies with a leader like Michael Foot or Tony Benn, why could I be persuaded to vote for them, when that is not the case with Corbyn?
Because from the moment he was elected leader the whole of the MSM and most of the PLP set out to discredit him for the verg obvious reason that at last the Labour Party had a leader who was not prepared to go along with the neoliberal agenda. His patent sincerity and personal humanity shine through if you are lucky enough to have attended any of his rallies or better still, met him. Probably all you see is the bearpit of PMQs, where the hysterical behaviour of the Tory bullyboys drowns out any voice of sanity or reason. Trying to make himself heard above that orchestrated cacophony is not the best way to get a message across. That is why he did so well at the last GE, because people got the chance to see the real Corbyn, not the distorted MSM image.
 
If Farage is the extent of far right extremists in this country then I don’t think we need to worry too much.
Try looking to France, Germany, Italy and beyond if you want to talk about the far right. The middle ground does exist despite what you say and the politicians who take it usually end up governing. Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbot etc won’t govern because they don’t occupy it. Bring in a moderate and Labour would win - sorry but from where I’m looking it’s blatantly obvious.
Farage is the semi house trained version of the far right, giving cover for the even uglier fascists of whom Yaxley-Lennon is the poster boy.
 
Farage is the semi house trained version of the far right, giving cover for the even uglier fascists of whom Yaxley-Lennon is the poster boy.


Bollocks, he resigned over Tommy Robinson’s association with UKIP. Farage isn’t a facist, he campaigns for Brexit.
The far right are nowhere in this country and never really have been. I know what you’re trying to imply and you’re wrong.
 
Bollocks, he resigned over Tommy Robinson’s association with UKIP. Farage isn’t a facist, he campaigns for Brexit.
The far right are nowhere in this country and never really have been. I know what you’re trying to imply and you’re wrong.
The far right have always lurked in the background, from The Windsors on down. And how about former chief spook Dearlove's recent intervention in the Brexit debate. Farage might have resigned from UKIP over Yaxley-Lennon but it could be construed as a good career move as UKIP is now a busted flush.
 
The far right have always lurked in the background, from The Windsors on down. And how about former chief spook Dearlove's recent intervention in the Brexit debate. Farage might have resigned from UKIP over Yaxley-Lennon but it could be construed as a good career move as UKIP is now a busted flush.


You stated Farage was cover for fascists and I’m saying that’s crap.
Do you like the odd conspiracy theory by any chance?
 
The greatest fear I have is that the present Labour leadership risks landing the UK with another five years of disasterously incompetent, nasty Tory rule. For a number of reasons the Labour Party feared better than was expected in 2017.
1) They appeared more exciting, compared to the alternatives, to a young forward looking
group of voters, probably hitherto unattached.
2) They faced a totally catastrophic campaign by May
3) Credit where credit is due..........Corbyn somehow managed to get both remain and leave
voters to believe he was with them.
The next General Election - if it is this year - Corbyn's adamant approach to leaving the EU will make it difficult to hang onto those young voters. I can't believe the Tory campaign will be that bad again and I can't imagine Corbyn will get such a soft ride, sitting on the EU fence again. Anyway you can talk about the percentage of vote you got in 2017 but as you know, in the British electoral system, it's not so much how many votes you get but where you get them.
Are the Labour Party's policies very left-wing or more moderate as you claim................does it really matter? The problem is that it's not just about policies is it. There is something that just doesn't smell right with the Labour leadership and momentum organisation..............the hints of bullying, anti-semitism etc. Why would I feel happier with the likes of Michael Foot or Tony Benn in charge rather than Corbyn? There is something that doesn't quite ring right..........is there a parallel between Corbyn and May?....................May, a remainer, who is pushing a leave agenda.
Blair achieved a landslide on the back of a tired and spent Tory Party............he offered something new, which gained widespread support (from centre, left and right). What we were to find out was that Blair was probably the best leader the Tory Party never had. He probably maintained his position with Tory votes. Who needed a Tory Party when you had a Labour leader carrying out many Tory policies?
Concerning your last quip. I would have felt much more at home if the Lib Dems had managed a coalition with Gordon Brown but it wasn't to be. Difficult though it was for me to swallow, I felt the decision, at that time, to go into coalition with the Tories, was the right one for the country. The Lib Dems did help hold off some of the worse excesses of Tory ideology but were found to be too naive and inexperienced to deal with the situation.............and hell, in the end, didn't they pay a price for that innocence.

2017 GE is a strange beast because May broke her own party's newly introduced rules on fixed terms to call an election at the absolute worst time for the Labour Party and many commentators said it would lead to Labour being out of power for a generation.

April 2017 - the absolute worst time for Labour for an election being called.

June 2017 Labour gain 40% of the vote. Biggest increase since 1945.

Cue people trying to explain that and how that was a peak. Why? Has Labour policy changed on anything? No. Has Labour personnel changed? No. Have the Tories managed to deliver anything? No. If we have an election in 2019 is that of their choosing timed to give the Tories a historic majority? No it will be because the Tory government has collapsed.

But it won't be against May. And it will be against....? Who can unite the Tories? Don't forget 48 Tory MPs forced a vote of no confidence in May and 115 of them voted to kick her out but the rest didn't, possibly because they couldn't decide who would replace her. Who do the public trust? I want a GE now, I want a GE against absolutely anyone that the Tories could have as leader, I wouldn't fear any of them.

'Corbyn's adamant approach to leaving the EU'. That is misinformation. Remain lost the referendum and Labour respect the result but only under certain circumstances. Policy at the moment as agreed at Conference is vote down May's deal, vote down no deal, push for a GE, try to renegotiate. All options on the table including Remain but excluding no deal.


'Corbyn won't get such a soft ride'. Erm, what? He has been attacked constantly from day 1 till day now by the media. I'm going to assume you were mid flow and didn't really mean to write that.


'Leadership....Momentum.....anti-Semitism'
Membership doubled because of the leadership and that brings funds and volunteers. It also brought 40% of the vote in a GE after having convincingly won 2 leadership contests. A lot of people won't like him, same as all politicians. He has massive support among the members so he will remain leader.
Momentum - I'm not a member but every one of them I have met have been average people who who a bit more energy and conviction than the average person. They galvanise and organise and in terms of canvassing are a massive asset. Online media they are widely accepted to be providing good quality succinct videos with a massive reach. Momentum are a great help readdressing media bias.

Anti-Semitism. We have a government whose MEPs were the only block in the EU to support the new anti-Semitic Hungarian leader and they continue as a government to support and arm the anti-Semitic state of Saudi Arabia. And yet we are told Corbyn is AS because....nothing that he has actually said or done but based on some journalists trawling 40 years of him being pro Palestine and in that time managing to find things that can be interpreted that way. Absolutely nothing concrete, just interpretation.

I have put myself in danger on numerous occasions to stand against racism. Do people think I would do that for many years and then back a racist. The other posters on here who back the current Labour leadership - do people think they would stand behind a racist? It is massively insulting to me personally and I'm sure to them too to be labelled in this way. And that is the intention. What will really offend the left? To trawl 40 years of activism and then misinterpret and say it often enough that it gets trotted out as if fact. That is what we are up against, and that is why putting it straight is important.

That is why all of these discussions are important. So much misinformation is passed around, when someone who got 40% in a national election 18 months ago can be declared unelectable in an election where the government would have collapsed - that shows just how much influence the right wing press are still dictating what information we are given. This stuff needs to be questioned, qualified and debated.
 
Bollocks, he resigned over Tommy Robinson’s association with UKIP. Farage isn’t a facist, he campaigns for Brexit.
The far right are nowhere in this country and never really have been. I know what you’re trying to imply and you’re wrong.

They're a force, according to the Transport Secretary, Chris Grayling, and could be an even greater one if (as seems highly likely), the government's Brexit plan is voted down in the Commons on Tuesday.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46847169
 
Last edited:
They're a force, according to the Transport Secretary, Chris Grayling, and could be an even greater one if (as seems highly likely) the government's Brexit plan is voted down in the Commons on Tuesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...r-claim-blocking-brexit-could-boost-far-right

Shouting in the street isn’t a cause for concern, getting elected at the ballot box is. The far right is nowhere in Britain and Chris Grayling is May’s pathetic poodle.
 
Shouting in the street isn’t a cause for concern, getting elected at the ballot box is. The far right is nowhere in Britain and Chris Grayling is May’s pathetic poodle.

While I agree with you about Grayling, I wouldn't be quite so sanguine about the prospects of the far-right,especially if they can't obtain the Brexit they feel they're entitled to.
 
While I agree with you about Grayling, I wouldn't be quite so sanguine about the prospects of the far-right,especially if they can't obtain the Brexit they feel they're entitled to.

Where is the evidence of a far right uprising in the UK?
People heckling MP’s in parliament square isn’t a far right uprising, it’s people heckling MP’s.
 
Where is the evidence of a far right uprising in the UK?
People heckling MP’s in parliament square isn’t a far right uprising
, it’s people heckling MP’s.

There was quite a big far-right rally in London before Xmas.The heckling of MP's and media figures in recent week in College Green was a reflection of the ugly mood in the UK ever since the referendum vote split the country in two.Expect to see the country further divided if May's Brexit plan is voted down next week and particularly so if Article 50 is extended or revoked.Personally,I don't think Brexit can de deliverd.If it isn't, I imagine there will be consequences.
 
Last edited:
There was quite a big far-right rally in London before Xmas.The heckling of MP's and media figures in recent week in Cambridge Green was a reflection of the ugly mood in the UK ever since the referendum vote split the country in two.Expect to see the country further divided if May's Brexit plan is voted down next week and particularly so if Article 50 is extended or revoked.Personally,I don't think Brexit can de deliverd.If it isn't, I imagine there will be consequences.

Collage Green, dufus.
 
Back
Top