Brexit negotiations thread

[londonblue]

I'm willing to do that....as nowhere, and I will lay the same challenge to you as MK....did it feature in the leave campaign that people would be kicked out....if you can prove me wrong than again I'm happy to be corrected.

Equally there were more leavers (from the zone poll) than remainers on here...if any of them thought that EU citizens already here were going to be kicked out ...perhaps they can explain where this came from.

That's not the point. The point is these people believed it was. They will feel cheated. (Although it's also possible that they're too stupid to do so,)

 

[maninasuitcase]

That's not the point. The point is these people believed it was. They will feel cheated. (Although it's also possible that they're too stupid to do so,)

There were certainly reports on TV, radio and in the printed press of people claiming they were told to go home immediately after the referendum. I have no reason to doubt those reports, so I would agree with LB that some people thought that leaving the EU would result in people being sent home.

I would have thought that the number of people thinking that way would be a tiny minority of people voting leave.

 

[callan]

That's not the point. The point is these people believed it was. They will feel cheated. (Although it's also possible that they're too stupid to do so,)

With you.....I think....were some zoners misguided enough to believe that Europe nationals would be deported then?....I don't recall any.

Again I am happy to be proved wrong....or perhaps an explanation of why it's a good idea to ask the brexiteers of SZ if they feel cheated.?

My point is that is unfair to tar all brexit supporters with the mindless actions of the few....do you disagree?

 

[MK Shrimper]

With you.....I think....were some zoners misguided enough to believe that Europe nationals would be deported then?....I don't recall any.

Again I am happy to be proved wrong....or perhaps an explanation of why it's a good idea to ask the brexiteers of SZ if they feel cheated.?

My point is that is unfair to tar all brexit supporters with the mindless actions of the few....do you disagree?

I take your point Callan, maybe I was hasty in my post and I apologise. It goes without saying that even the Brexiteers on SZ have a bit more upstairs tha those that thought that Brexit would mean 3 million Poles, Croats, Italians etc would be shipped out....well most of you anyway....:whistling:

 

[callan]

I take your point Callan, maybe I was hasty in my post and I apologise. It goes without saying that even the Brexiteers on SZ have a bit more upstairs tha those that thought that Brexit would mean 3 million Poles, Croats, Italians etc would be shipped out....well most of you anyway....:whistling:

Thanks Paul.

You will of course appreciate that one benefit of Brexit should be, that we are less discriminating than we are now.

 

[callan]

I don't have a problem with that, but practically you can't negotiate to leave, and negotiate a better deal to stay at the same time! I suppose the best you could do is (assuming a hypothetical 2nd vote is to stay because the leave deal isn't good enough) then have a 3rd vote on a new deal with the EU.

Personally I think that's a bit of a mess, but I didn't want a referendum in the 1st place!

We have already rejected the EU in its current format, it would be absolutely absurd to go back in without fundamental change.

So the vote to leave must in my opinion be respected unless the EU agrees to fundamental change and reform which is reflected on a ballot, put to the people.

 

[RHB]

We have already rejected the EU in its current format, it would be absolutely absurd to go back in without fundamental change.

So the vote to leave must in my opinion be respected unless the EU agrees to fundamental change and reform which is reflected on a ballot, put to the people.

I reckon Andrea Leadsom would have you commited to the Tower for such unpatriotic talk.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ens-shadow-brexit-sleepless-anxious-depressed

What some EU citizens in the UK think about Brexit.

 

[* ORM *]

So as usual blinkers get in the way of serious debate. Just because someone votes for a political party does that mean they have to like 100% of the policies and hate 100% of the oppositions? Same with Brexit. There are arguments in the leave campaign that I'm not a fan of but economically it makes sense. What I still fail to understand is why the remain camp still protest. Come to think of it if you really don't like a democracy **** off to the US where money comes before political ability. That will create plenty more room for immigration of people we want here.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

So as usual blinkers get in the way of serious debate. Just because someone votes for a political party does that mean they have to like 100% of the policies and hate 100% of the oppositions? Same with Brexit. There are arguments in the leave campaign that I'm not a fan of but economically it makes sense. What I still fail to understand is why the remain camp still protest. Come to think of it if you really don't like a democracy **** off to the US where money comes before political ability. That will create plenty more room for immigration of people we want here.

You ask for serious debate, then in the same quote you want people to **** off, charming.
The whole debate about a close vote was started by the pre vote comments of Nigel Farage

 

[londonblue]

So as usual blinkers get in the way of serious debate. Just because someone votes for a political party does that mean they have to like 100% of the policies and hate 100% of the oppositions? Same with Brexit. There are arguments in the leave campaign that I'm not a fan of but economically it makes sense. What I still fail to understand is why the remain camp still protest. Come to think of it if you really don't like a democracy **** off to the US where money comes before political ability. That will create plenty more room for immigration of people we want here.

On the basis that almost all economists think it doesn't make sense economically I'd be interested to hear how you make the economic case.

 

[Ricky Otto]

So as usual blinkers get in the way of serious debate. Just because someone votes for a political party does that mean they have to like 100% of the policies and hate 100% of the oppositions? Same with Brexit. There are arguments in the leave campaign that I'm not a fan of but economically it makes sense. What I still fail to understand is why the remain camp still protest. Come to think of it if you really don't like a democracy **** off to the US where money comes before political ability. That will create plenty more room for immigration of people we want here.

I was in the remain camp and I accept that the vote is democracy and to be fair it's going to happen so the protesting doesn't mean much.
Personally I believe that the predicted foregone conclusion that remain would win comfortably meant a lot of potential remain voters didn't bother. I do think that if the referendum was held again tomorrow that remain would win. You can't just keep holding the same vote until you get a result you want though. Either way the country is pretty evenly split with no clear majority, so the remain camp will still protest and I think that it is democratic that their voice is heard to an extent. Another referendum should be a clear NO but when negotiating the terms of Brexit you need to listen to that half of the population too.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-to-be-offered-nearly-same-rights-at-britons

I nwas interested to hear that David Davis apparently said on Marr (didn't see the programme) that the UK is hoping to stay in the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) scheme.Good.That's about the only dog I still have in this particular fight.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Well, for once this pesimistic note is not from the Independent nor The Guardian but the 'hardly left leaning' Sky News and their reporter Faisal Islam. I don't think the title is very good, as I've claimed all along, there will be no winners from Brexit....... however, I hesitate to suggest who will be the biggest losers.

http://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-is-the-eu-already-winning-brexit-10927564

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

But happens if people reject the deal? Do we just not leave the EU, or do we keep having referendums until we get a deal people are happy with?

I'm against the idea of a second referendum. It's our politicians' job to get the best deal for Britain, that's what they're elected and paid to do.

In which case that's an easy one as the best deal for Britain is remaining.

We could have saved a fair bit of money by not holding the referendum in the first place.

We have already rejected the EU in its current format, it would be absolutely absurd to go back in without fundamental change.

So the vote to leave must in my opinion be respected unless the EU agrees to fundamental change and reform which is reflected on a ballot, put to the people.

What when the people realise their mistake? (Almost all of the pre-referendum Leave arguments have been shown up as hollow. A better informed electorate are likely to come to a different result.)

And what when the people change? (Demographically the old gits who support Brexit are dying off and being replaced by the young who support remaining in the EU).

Theresa May's plan has been rejected. It would be absurd to let Theresa May's Team handle these negotiations after the electorate told her to **** off.

So as usual blinkers get in the way of serious debate. Just because someone votes for a political party does that mean they have to like 100% of the policies and hate 100% of the oppositions? Same with Brexit. There are arguments in the leave campaign that I'm not a fan of but economically it makes sense. What I still fail to understand is why the remain camp still protest. Come to think of it if you really don't like a democracy **** off to the US where money comes before political ability. That will create plenty more room for immigration of people we want here.

How does it economically make sense?

Well, for once this pesimistic note is not from the Independent nor The Guardian but the 'hardly left leaning' Sky News and their reporter Faisal Islam. I don't think the title is very good, as I've claimed all along, there will be no winners from Brexit....... however, I hesitate to suggest who will be the biggest losers.

http://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-is-the-eu-already-winning-brexit-10927564

There will be some winners from Brexit. Various currency speculators and hedge funds have already made a killing; some businesses benefit from downturns - the German budget chains Lidl and Aldi are likely to expand their UK marketshares; insolvency practitioners aren't going to be short of work.

But the vast majority of the British people will be worse off.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

In which case that's an easy one as the best deal for Britain is remaining.

We could have saved a fair bit of money by not holding the referendum in the first place.



What when the people realise their mistake? (Almost all of the pre-referendum Leave arguments have been shown up as hollow. A better informed electorate are likely to come to a different result.)

And what when the people change? (Demographically the old gits who support Brexit are dying off and being replaced by the young who support remaining in the EU).

Theresa May's plan has been rejected. It would be absurd to let Theresa May's Team handle these negotiations after the electorate told her to **** off.



How does it economically make sense?



There will be some winners from Brexit. Various currency speculators and hedge funds have already made a killing; some businesses benefit from downturns - the German budget chains Lidl and Aldi are likely to expand their UK marketshares; insolvency practitioners aren't going to be short of work.

But the vast majority of the British people will be worse off.

Of course you're totally correct. It probably wouldn't be surprising to find out that these shadowy beneficiaries were the ones pulling the strings behind the Brexit campaign. :winking:

 

[londonblue]

In which case that's an easy one as the best deal for Britain is remaining.

We could have saved a fair bit of money by not holding the referendum in the first place.



What when the people realise their mistake? (Almost all of the pre-referendum Leave arguments have been shown up as hollow. A better informed electorate are likely to come to a different result.)

And what when the people change? (Demographically the old gits who support Brexit are dying off and being replaced by the young who support remaining in the EU).

Theresa May's plan has been rejected. It would be absurd to let Theresa May's Team handle these negotiations after the electorate told her to **** off.



How does it economically make sense?



There will be some winners from Brexit. Various currency speculators and hedge funds have already made a killing; some businesses benefit from downturns - the German budget chains Lidl and Aldi are likely to expand their UK marketshares; insolvency practitioners aren't going to be short of work.

But the vast majority of the British people will be worse off.

Don't forget the lawyers. A friend has just joined a new firm that are mainly in financial services. They reckon they've now got enough work for the next 20 years.

As you say, however, most people will be worse off. But, that was their choice. It's the price to pay for taking back control.

 

[* ORM *]

On the basis that almost all economists think it doesn't make sense economically I'd be interested to hear how you make the economic case.

Very simple - less outgoings into a seemingly bottomless bureaucracy. More incomings with the ability to sign our own trade agreements. China and India is where the money is. Not Europe and not the US. We are a more attractive prospect to China away from EU. That's too simplistic but the way I see this is if Britain gets it wrong it only has itself to blame. Too many doom and gloom merchants talking this into a disaster rather than using the opportunity to sell Britain at its best. I will start panicking when FX moves out of London and we get the same brain drain that we saw in The 70s. Not going to happen unless we let it.

And thankful we don't have Labour trying to negotiate Brexit. What a sell out that would be

 

[callan]

In which case that's an easy one as the best deal for Britain is remaining.


What when the people realise their mistake? (Almost all of the pre-referendum Leave arguments have been shown up as hollow. A better informed electorate are likely to come to a different result.)

And what when the people change? (Demographically the old gits who support Brexit are dying off and being replaced by the young who support remaining in the EU).

Theresa May's plan has been rejected. It would be absurd to let Theresa May's Team handle these negotiations after the electorate told her to **** off.

Seeing as there was an overwhelming vote for two parties who favoured Brexit, and an absolute rejection of parties that were offering a further referendum, you may be waiting a long time for either a further vote or indeed a result that would please you.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-fear-they-will-become-mays-sacrificial-lambs

Looks rather like the UK will have to accept what the EU has proposed regarding citizens rights if they want a deal.

So much for "negotiating".:winking: