British Justice.

[Cricko]

In May 2010 Tohseef Shah spray painted a British War Memorial with "islam will dominate osama is coming" he was fined £50 & walked free from court. In November 2010, Emdadur Choudhury burned a Poppy during the 2mins silence. He too was given a £50 fine and walked free from court. Today, 2 men have been sentenced to 12 months in prison for spray painting a Poppy on a mosque. Welcome to the Great British justice system. Disgusting....


Why do we only prosecute two people who vandalise a Mosque, but not the person who vandalises a British war memorial? Can somebody explain the logic? None are right IMO but the bias towards certain elements of our society is somewhat questionable.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

It is plainly ludicrous. There's no other explanation except that Muslims are untouchable in the eyes of the law and that those who oppose mass immigration and the wholesale islamification of our once great nation are beyond the pale. I'm sure the red sisters will witter on about context and a whole host of nonsense, but the facts are plain to see, right in front of our eyes.

 

[osymandus]

In May 2010 Tohseef Shah spray painted a British War Memorial with "islam will dominate osama is coming" he was fined £50 & walked free from court. In November 2010, Emdadur Choudhury burned a Poppy during the 2mins silence. He too was given a £50 fine and walked free from court. Today, 2 men have been sentenced to 12 months in prison for spray painting a Poppy on a mosque. Welcome to the Great British justice system. Disgusting....


Why do we only prosecute two people who vandalise a Mosque, but not the person who vandalises a British war memorial? Can somebody explain the logic? None are right IMO but the bias towards certain elements of our society is somewhat questionable.

Literally because no permanent damage was done , and it was an act of vandalism in both cases . And from what i understand the poppy buring was a breach of teh piece (i would imagine he would have had to part with money to get a poppy ) . It's teh same with flag burning you have to buy the thing to destroy it .

You missed out the kid who climbed the cenotaph with the famous dad btw. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-tells-court-16-month-sentence-reduced.html

 

[Firestorm]

The charge in the first instance was Criminal damage

According to the daily mail
"The file was sent to lawyers at the Counter Terrorism Division of the CPS in London to see if there was a racially or religiously motivated connotation.

However when Shah appeared before magistrates this week, prosecutor Andrew Bodger said: 'It was decided there was not enough evidence to prove this, and they decided it was politically


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270021/British-Muslim-daubs-war-memorial-Islamic-slogans--CPS-says-NOT-racially-motivated.html#ixzz1ZvNEUkvH"

The second one , again according to the Mail "Choudhury, from Bethnal Green, East London, was found guilty of using threatening or abusive words or behaviour "

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rmistice-Day-fined-just-50.html#ixzz1ZvNWHooV

the latest was "conspiracy to commit racially-aggravated criminal damage"

So the "logic" is that the sentences are different because the charges were different.

Now I am not saying that the charges brought were correct or defending anything regarding Muslims or anyone for that matter. Just putting a bit more detail into the debate.

Also in response to the original post "Why do we only prosecute two people who vandalise a Mosque, but not the person who vandalises a British war memorial? Can somebody explain the logic"
I think all three were prosecuted.

 

[OldBlueLady]

British Justice is fast becoming a joke, mind you, it's not the only thing.....take, for example, a theoretical job opening in certain public sector places of work. Do they advertise for and seek the best candidate for the job? No, they advertise and employ the person who best raises their ethnic/sexual orientation quotas even though they are blatantly inferior to several white, heterosexual, better qualified candidates. And don't anyone tell me it doesn't happen, I know it does, I've heard about it in many places of work! Anyway, sorry, that was slightly off topic!

 

[Firestorm]

And before I get roundly slaughtered with the usual lefty comments :winking:

I find it interesting that in a lot of debates of this nature , facts tend to get ignored when there is a bit of religion involved.

However if the centoaph was a religious monument , or the poppy a religious symbol then I would hope that the charges would have been similar.

Although it would appear that if you vandalise a church you do get off lighter

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...vandalised-church-apologise-congregation.html

 

[SupaBlues]

From what I can gather is any offence commited by a white Briton against an ethnic is classed as racist but when it is the other way round racism is a forbidden word as the legal system/media are afraid they will be seen as the culprits by being branded racist. It is entirely this thought process that causes racial tension in this country when all you see is 1 rule for ethnics-leniency on a grand scale and the complete opposite for your everyday white Briton who has commited a similar offence.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

From what I can gather is any offence commited by a white Briton against an ethnic is classed as racist but when it is the other way round racism is a forbidden word as the legal system/media are afraid they will be seen as the culprits by being branded racist. It is entirely this thought process that causes racial tension in this country when all you see is 1 rule for ethnics-leniency on a grand scale and the complete opposite for your everyday white Briton who has commited a similar offence.

Totally this...and Osy and burkablue can kiss my arse on this. The rules in this country are woeful.

 

[Rudi Luftwaffe]

To be fair that **** who is the son of whoever it is from Pink Floyd got a decent stretch for swinging from the cenotaph.

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

Totally this.... The rules in this country are woeful.

Hear, hear. Common sense and justice died in the U.K years ago. We all know the reasons why this has occured, yet to mention them brings a torrent of rubbish from the pathetic 'do-gooders' and so called human rights campaigners who have sprung up in recent years.
To all these people, i say go to Zimbabwe, North Korea, or various middle east countries, and spout your rubbish there. And to the people on this site who waffle on with their intelectual opinions, dear oh dear, what world do you live in. Wake up and smell the coffee before it's too late. (it probably is).

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Hear, hear. Common sense and justice died in the U.K years ago. We all know the reasons why this has occured, yet to mention them brings a torrent of rubbish from the pathetic 'do-gooders' and so called human rights campaigners who have sprung up in recent years.
To all these people, i say go to Zimbabwe, North Korea, or various middle east countries, and spout your rubbish there. And to the people on this site who waffle on with their intelectual opinions, dear oh dear, what world do you live in. Wake up and smell the coffee before it's too late. (it probably is).

It extends everywhere...not even being able to play conkers in the playground....total madness.

 

[southendkid]

I imagine the process for sentencing involves picking the first number that comes into the judge's head. I don't know if it's really prejudiced, I imagine sentencing just varies between judges because they don't have a clue what the sentencing rules are themselves. Either that or the 12 months was for ignoring a last warning or something, had these people committed past offences?

 

[Firestorm]

It extends everywhere...not even being able to play conkers in the playground....total madness.

That is nothing to do with PC or anything similar, its an economic decision taken by the education authourity , in order to save money on the liability insurance premiums. hese premiums have been increased due to the increased number of claims made against authorities by parents who don't believe there are such things as accidents anymore.

 

[Firestorm]

I imagine the process for sentencing involves picking the first number that comes into the judge's head. I don't know if it's really prejudiced, I imagine sentencing just varies between judges because they don't have a clue what the sentencing rules are themselves. Either that or the 12 months was for ignoring a last warning or something, had these people committed past offences?

I imagine that sentencing involves following guidelines set by government based on the actual charge brought in the first place.
I would hazard a guess that the sentencing guidelines in the third case were greater than those in the other two charges.

 

[Firestorm]

Literally because no permanent damage was done , and it was an act of vandalism in both cases . And from what i understand the poppy buring was a breach of teh piece (i would imagine he would have had to part with money to get a poppy ) . It's teh same with flag burning you have to buy the thing to destroy it .

You missed out the kid who climbed the cenotaph with the famous dad btw. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-tells-court-16-month-sentence-reduced.html

They were different charges, none of which used the phrase "act of vandalism" or anything similar

Cricko asked for the Logic behind it not half baked opinion

 

[southendkid]

I imagine that sentencing involves following guidelines set by government based on the actual charge brought in the first place.I would hazard a guess that the sentencing guidelines in the third case were greater than those in the other two charges.

I understand that, I'm trying to understand what the difference was though, particually in regards to the first offence. I don't understand the difference unless these two men had previously had run ins with the law in which case the law may be harsher (I think)

 

[osymandus]

From what I can gather is any offence commited by a white Briton against an ethnic is classed as racist but when it is the other way round racism is a forbidden word as the legal system/media are afraid they will be seen as the culprits by being branded racist. It is entirely this thought process that causes racial tension in this country when all you see is 1 rule for ethnics-leniency on a grand scale and the complete opposite for your everyday white Briton who has commited a similar offence.

Nope , thats how various media outlets report it , sadly back ion teh 80's it was prejudice against minorities then swung the other way now the courts take more time and care (well as much as possible yeah to the CPS) . Pure opinion espically with out the facts of the crime have little to do with the legal system. You want to change it learn it.

 

[steveo]

I understand that, I'm trying to understand what the difference was though, particually in regards to the first offence. I don't understand the difference unless these two men had previously had run ins with the law in which case the law may be harsher (I think)

The difference is this country has been governed by mamby pamby do gooders, with their ridiculous Human Rights bill for the last 15 years or so, who have been terrified of upsetting our non British cousins and have subsequently pussy footed around trying to keep everyone happy except the bog standard run of the mill British citizen who has worked hard and paid his tax for years and years, whilst living within the laws of the Country.
Let’s hope it changes pretty soon.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The difference is this country has been governed by mamby pamby do gooders, with their ridiculous Human Rights bill for the last 15 years or so, who have been terrified of upsetting our non British cousins and have subsequently pussy footed around trying to keep everyone happy except the bog standard run of the mill British citizen who has worked hard and paid his tax for years and years, whilst living within the laws of the Country.
Let’s hope it changes pretty soon.

Unlikely unless the Tories win an absolute majority in 2015 and I doubt it would happen even then.Get used to it.The HRA is here to stay.:smiles:

 

[Firestorm]

I understand that, I'm trying to understand what the difference was though, particually in regards to the first offence. I don't understand the difference unless these two men had previously had run ins with the law in which case the law may be harsher (I think)

My guess is that, Legally, the Cenotaph and the poppy are political icons as opposed to religious (they honour war dead of many religions and many races but one political idea, that of the Government of Great Britain at the time of the war) and the graffitti on the Centaph did not contain a racial or religious text , it was threatening and aimed at a political leader (if you could call Gordon Brown that) .
Whereas the last case was on a Religious building and contained specific religious /race text.
If the latter charge had been brought in the other two cases the chances of the cases not fufilling the letter of the law and then not getting a conviction were enough to make the CPS go for the lesser but nailed on charge