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THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK

Life President⭐
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
12,828
Location
SHOEBURY
Yep, big headlines on the back of todays Evening Echo. The penny has finally dropped. Some of us have been saying this all season, even last season as well. In October Phil Brown informed us that our strikers would come good. This hasn't happened as chance after chance goes begging.
Well done Mr Brown, you're a bit slow, but you do get there in the end. A bit like your main current striker.
 

mrsblue

Banned
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
9,419
Yep, big headlines on the back of todays Evening Echo. The penny has finally dropped. Some of us have been saying this all season, even last season as well. In October Phil Brown informed us that our strikers would come good. This hasn't happened as chance after chance goes begging.
Well done Mr Brown, you're a bit slow, but you do get there in the end. A bit like your main current striker.


Hmmmm,

Eastwood,Barnard,Corr,Shaq,Woodrow all struggle to hit the net,without checking these 5 probably managed less than 20 league goals between them under Brown.

Players or tactics.
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
38,021
Location
London
We just need a striker to get service and support.

Short of getting the second coming of Stanley Victor Collymore in a striker who can pick up a long ball hoofed in his vague direction, beat three or four defenders and score from 25 yards, a new striker isn't going to fix things so long as that forward remains isolated, outnumbered and has to feed off scraps.
 

mrsblue

Banned
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
9,419
We just need a striker to get service and support.

Short of getting the second coming of Stanley Victor Collymore in a striker who can pick up a long ball hoofed in his vague direction, beat three or four defenders and score from 25 yards, a new striker isn't going to fix things so long as that forward remains isolated, outnumbered and has to feed off scraps.


Exactly how I see it.
 

THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK

Life President⭐
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
12,828
Location
SHOEBURY
Me too. Shearer wouldn't score in this team.

It all depends what sort of striker you get. Brett Angell busted a gut to get into the penalty area. He was always there, so our players kept whipping the ball across, high and low, knowing he would put one away. Stan Collymore would go it alone from deep and scored a high amount of individual goals in a bad team. Freddy Eastwood could finish a team goal or create his own at his best.
Corr at his best was always around the 6 yard box to finish things off. That's where he gets nearly all his goals. He can't make his own goals. Currently under Brown he plays far too deep and has lost any pace to get into the area. It really is time to get a more mobile center forward. Nearly all of them can win things in the air and hold the ball up, the best ones do much more than that.
 

hamiltonblue

Youth Team
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
150
Could it be that Brown has tried to show every faith in his squad before bringing in new faces? Worrall had to work his way into the side and repaid that with goals, similarly Jack Payne. Perhaps it is his persistence with the formation that is at fault? I thought it worked well last season, with Hurst and dare I say it Straker, actually delivering the goals, not so this term.
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
38,021
Location
London
It all depends what sort of striker you get. Brett Angell busted a gut to get into the penalty area. He was always there, so our players kept whipping the ball across, high and low, knowing he would put one away. Stan Collymore would go it alone from deep and scored a high amount of individual goals in a bad team. Freddy Eastwood could finish a team goal or create his own at his best.
Corr at his best was always around the 6 yard box to finish things off. That's where he gets nearly all his goals. He can't make his own goals. Currently under Brown he plays far too deep and has lost any pace to get into the area. It really is time to get a more mobile center forward. Nearly all of them can win things in the air and hold the ball up, the best ones do much more than that.

Brett Angell had not only Ian Benjamin up front alongside him but also three midfielders who scored double figures by regularly getting into the box in Ooh Andy Ansah, Tilly and Dave Martin.

Freddy was useless when alone (or playing with Lead Bradbury), but give him a Wayne Gray alongside him and a Mark Gower getting forward from midfield he could use either as a decoy and he was deadly and could then score the "individual" goals.

It's not a more mobile centre-forward we need, but a more mobile midfield. We've got five midfielders and none of them were getting into the box with any regularity. Brett Angell, Freddy Eastwood - they all needed support. So does Barry Corr, Lee Barnard etc etc

How often was Will Atkinson in the penalty area?
 

Blue_Wes

Simple Minded
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
1,844
Location
At the ballet.
Brett Angell had not only Ian Benjamin up front alongside him but also three midfielders who scored double figures by regularly getting into the box in Ooh Andy Ansah, Tilly and Dave Martin.

Freddy was useless when alone (or playing with Lead Bradbury), but give him a Wayne Gray alongside him and a Mark Gower getting forward from midfield he could use either as a decoy and he was deadly and could then score the "individual" goals.

It's not a more mobile centre-forward we need, but a more mobile midfield. We've got five midfielders and none of them were getting into the box with any regularity. Brett Angell, Freddy Eastwood - they all needed support. So does Barry Corr, Lee Barnard etc etc

How often was Will Atkinson in the penalty area?

The thing is, we have shown it can work in this formation, it did so at Cambridge. Corr had his best game in ages, winning almost every ball, and Payne & Hurst (in his best game for ages) weren't often far from him when he did, and they had several chances to show for it - finishing them was the problem. I guess we just need a plan B for when the opposition figure it out and start to track the runners, and frustrate BBBC.

Lenny isn't driving forward any more, and Atkinson is a steady eddy who rarely makes any mistakes, because he doesn't dare try anything, meaning he rarely creates. Payne is a luxury player who can provide a spark, but also goes missing, so agree that we need to change that. It's why it's a surprise that Timlin's been dropped, he's the vocal encouragement that Payne needs when he's having his quiet patches, he drives into the box, he tries to create (admittedly this doesn't always come off, but the crowd need not to crucify our players for every mistake, and instead appreciate what he's trying to achieve), and he's also smart enough to cover Lenny to make them bursts into the box that were so effective last season.
 

wakes123

Manager⭐
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Messages
2,030
Location
Leigh-On-Sea
Yep, big headlines on the back of todays Evening Echo. The penny has finally dropped. Some of us have been saying this all season, even last season as well. In October Phil Brown informed us that our strikers would come good. This hasn't happened as chance after chance goes begging.
Well done Mr Brown, you're a bit slow, but you do get there in the end. A bit like your main current striker.
To be fair to Brown, he did try and bring in Elliot Lee and he got injured straightaway. Who knows what would have happened if he stayed fit.
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
38,021
Location
London
The thing is, we have shown it can work in this formation, it did so at Cambridge. Corr had his best game in ages, winning almost every ball, and Payne & Hurst (in his best game for ages) weren't often far from him when he did, and they had several chances to show for it - finishing them was the problem. I guess we just need a plan B for when the opposition figure it out and start to track the runners, and frustrate BBBC.

Lenny isn't driving forward any more, and Atkinson is a steady eddy who rarely makes any mistakes, because he doesn't dare try anything, meaning he rarely creates. Payne is a luxury player who can provide a spark, but also goes missing, so agree that we need to change that. It's why it's a surprise that Timlin's been dropped, he's the vocal encouragement that Payne needs when he's having his quiet patches, he drives into the box, he tries to create (admittedly this doesn't always come off, but the crowd need not to crucify our players for every mistake, and instead appreciate what he's trying to achieve), and he's also smart enough to cover Lenny to make them bursts into the box that were so effective last season.

Agree it's madness that Atkinson is in over Timlin, but the runs weren't happening against Daggers. Lenny is clearly being told to sit and play deeper and doesn't have that licence to rampage forward. What we need is better movement and off the ball runners. Obviously it didn't help that our most dynamic off the ball runner in Worrall went off injured and Hurst wasn't even fit to start but our play is too static and we don't get enough bodies in the box.

If you look at the XI we had out Sunday there wasn't one partnership or combination out there where you thought 'they work well together', 'they always link-up well' or 'they know each other's game inside-out'. We're halfway through the season and we're playing as XI individuals (and other than Payne, not very individualistic individuals at that) rather than as a team. We've got decent players but they're being coached as a team only in defence and not in attack.

I can't help but think a manager like Tilly would get so much more out of the current crop of players going forward by just encouraging them to attack with confidence. You certainly know that a Barry Fry would have them streaming forward.
 

RHB

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
25,455
Location
Westcliff riviera
Agree it's madness that Atkinson is in over Timlin, but the runs weren't happening against Daggers. Lenny is clearly being told to sit and play deeper and doesn't have that licence to rampage forward. What we need is better movement and off the ball runners. Obviously it didn't help that our most dynamic off the ball runner in Worrall went off injured and Hurst wasn't even fit to start but our play is too static and we don't get enough bodies in the box.

If you look at the XI we had out Sunday there wasn't one partnership or combination out there where you thought 'they work well together', 'they always link-up well' or 'they know each other's game inside-out'. We're halfway through the season and we're playing as XI individuals (and other than Payne, not very individualistic individuals at that) rather than as a team. We've got decent players but they're being coached as a team only in defence and not in attack.

I can't help but think a manager like Tilly would get so much more out of the current crop of players going forward by just encouraging them to attack with confidence. You certainly know that a Barry Fry would have them streaming forward.

Yeah,..... all the way to Birmingham!!!
 

LägerBomb

Coach
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Messages
808
Location
Brighton via L-o-S
Do we need more players? I think we should be looking at an attacking coach to get the best out of the players in the final 3rd. Can't see how extra bodies are going to make a difference. In Corr, Coulthirst and Barnard we've got about every type of striker going as far as L2 is concerned.

For me, the answer is in the training, not the transfer market.
 

Blue_Wes

Simple Minded
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
1,844
Location
At the ballet.
Do we need more players? I think we should be looking at an attacking coach to get the best out of the players in the final 3rd. Can't see how extra bodies are going to make a difference. In Corr, Coulthirst and Barnard we've got about every type of striker going as far as L2 is concerned.

For me, the answer is in the training, not the transfer market.

That's not a bad shout, and as much as it pains me to say it, but a recent example of how employing a striking coach has been a success is at Wet Spam. Sullivan told Sam to try and be more attacking and suggested he hired an Attacking coach to help. Big Sam agreed to both, brought in Sheringham, and almost immediately they began reaping the rewards.
 

dannypav

President
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
5,826
IMO , we have nobody in midfield that can dictate a game.
Leonard , Atkinson and Timlin all have attributes but none of them are over creative.
Although this is maybe not a great example , as we beat them , but Woods of Shrewsbury was that type of player.
A guy that moved his team forward with purpose.
We lack that.
Payne has moments of inspiration and will undoubtedly improve with more experience , but I see his 'moments' as being largely individual and not a game dictator.
That is not a criticism of Payne and would be amazed if someone so young , in his first full season , ran the game.
My point is that although one of the major complaints on here are our strikers and their lack of goals , I think the problem also lies with a midfield that doesn't create.
People are crying out for Brown to play two strikers , but the only viable option IMO would be to drop Payne.
Would the dissenters accept that ?
It's too simplistic to say 'play two up top' - the team still needs balance.
 

mrsblue

Banned
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
9,419
IMO , we have nobody in midfield that can dictate a game.
Leonard , Atkinson and Timlin all have attributes but none of them are over creative.
Although this is maybe not a great example , as we beat them , but Woods of Shrewsbury was that type of player.
A guy that moved his team forward with purpose.
We lack that.
Payne has moments of inspiration and will undoubtedly improve with more experience , but I see his 'moments' as being largely individual and not a game dictator.
That is not a criticism of Payne and would be amazed if someone so young , in his first full season , ran the game.
My point is that although one of the major complaints on here are our strikers and their lack of goals , I think the problem also lies with a midfield that doesn't create.
People are crying out for Brown to play two strikers , but the only viable option IMO would be to drop Payne.
Would the dissenters accept that ?
It's too simplistic to say 'play two up top' - the team still needs balance.


The last time Brown played 2 genuine forwards with one of them being quick resulted in a superb 3 0 win,it is not rocket science.
 
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