Cameron Belford take 3 ?

[essexshrimper]

if bentley gets injured....... step forward TED SMITH :smile:

 

[Beefy]

How many points did we miss out on promotion by last season? And people bring the fact that we didn't go up regardless of the points total as a stick to beat Paul Sturrock with.

If he thinks that we're more likely to get three points tomorrow with Belford in goal than with Bentley then he has to bring him in. If we miss out by a point again no one will look back on the Exeter game and say 'oh well, at least we gave young Dan Bentley a chance'.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

How many points did we miss out on promotion by last season? And people bring the fact that we didn't go up regardless of the points total as a stick to beat Paul Sturrock with.

If he thinks that we're more likely to get three points tomorrow with Belford in goal than with Bentley then he has to bring him in. If we miss out by a point again no one will look back on the Exeter game and say 'oh well, at least we gave young Dan Bentley a chance'.

I'm afraid it's been clear for some time now that we'll be extremly unlikely to miss out by just one point again this season.Yesterday's news just underlines that.:sad:

 

[Beefy]

Right let's give up now then.

It's September FFS.

 

[Pubey]

I'm afraid it's been clear for some time now that we'll be extremly unlikely to miss out by just one point again this season.Yesterday's news just underlines that.:sad:

Au contraire. We are level pegging (on 10 points) compared to this time last season.

 

[Jam_Man]

I'm afraid it's been clear for some time now that we'll be extremly unlikely to miss out by just one point again this season.Yesterday's news just underlines that.:sad:

Finances aside think the football has been promising so far and certainly plenty to be optimistic about, how continued financial problems go on to affect that remains to be seen.

 

[A Century United]

I'm afraid it's been clear for some time now that we'll be extremly unlikely to miss out by just one point again this season.Yesterday's news just underlines that.:sad:

​

 

[dannypav]

Why will it ?

He is still young and if he isnt ready thats no reason for it to be damaging. Him coming in and losing us a game would be a disaster for him.

If its one game then Id not have an issue with him if PS thinks he is ready. If he isnt ready then should definitely be send out on loan, needs to get some experience somewhere.

Sorry , I just don't agree.
Playing any youngster has an element of risk , but if Bentley is continually overlooked then it won't improve his confidence.
I understand that keepers tend to 'come of age' or 'improve' with age etc , but that premiss doesn't seem to be so prevalent in the lower divisions ( i.e many more keepers are played at younger ages in Div 1 and 2 ).
This is probably borne out of financial necessity , but nevertheless , keepers tend to be thrown in earlier outside the Premier League and Championship where money is tight.
If I thought Belford was an outstanding keeper who would make a huge difference then maybe my opinion would be different , but I don't see that , and think it;s time to have faith in Bentley.

 

[Beefy]

but that premiss doesn't seem to be so prevalent in the lower divisions ( i.e many more keepers are played at younger ages in Div 1 and 2 ).

Really? I can't think of too many examples where it's happened and been successful. Joe Hart at Shrewsbury. Butland last year at Cheltenham.

I'm not saying that you're wrong but I've never noticed a lot of teenage goalkeepers in the lower leagues.

Bentley's confidence seemed to get destroyed with each goal in the Spurs friendly and with each goal our defence dropped deeper and deeper to cover for him. He didn't look ready for the first team then, IMO.

 

[Jam_Man]

I dont see any reason why youngsters would be played in the lower leagues when there are spaces for only 92 keepers in the country and plenty of free agents with experience.

Id like to see out of the 24 keepers who started last Saturday how many were under 21.

edit : Took a quick scan through ages :


Wimbledon 22 Torquay 26
Barnet 30 Aldershot 27
Bradford 25 Morcambe 30
Cheltenham 27 Oxford 30
Chesterfield 24 Accrington 32
Daggers 24 Northampton 19 (on loan from Wigan)
Exeter 23 Wycombe 22
Fleetwood 25 Port Vale 26

Only one keeper there under 21, a premiership keeper on loan.

Thats 20 minutes of my life Ill never get back...

 

[dannypav]

Really? I can't think of too many examples where it's happened and been successful. Joe Hart at Shrewsbury. Butland last year at Cheltenham.

I'm not saying that you're wrong but I've never noticed a lot of teenage goalkeepers in the lower leagues.

Bentley's confidence seemed to get destroyed with each goal in the Spurs friendly and with each goal our defence dropped deeper and deeper to cover for him. He didn't look ready for the first team then, IMO.

Yes I agree with you that the Spurs game was not agreat example , but also think the back four were also still bedding in , so may have contributed also.
It's definately not black and white.
Did Spurs score so many because of the defences lack of confidence in Bentley ?
Did Bentley concede so many because the defence were all over the place ?
Bit of both I guess.
I have just never seen anything in Belford that has inspired any confidence.
His standing seemed to grow on the 'backs to the wall' job against Crawley and from then on a large amount of fans could see no wrong in him.
Nobody wanst Bentleys confidence shot to pieces and to lose 3 points tomorrow , but I would rather we ( Sturrock / fans ) back him.
Don't see it happening though.

 

[dannypav]

I dont see any reason why youngsters would be played in the lower leagues when there are spaces for only 92 keepers in the country and plenty of free agents with experience.

Id like to see out of the 24 keepers who started last Saturday how many were under 21.

I wasn't referring particularly to last weekend , but just that for reasons which I guess are financial , keepers tend to get their chance earlier in lower leagues.

 

[Jam_Man]

I wasn't referring particularly to last weekend , but just that for reasons which I guess are financial , keepers tend to get their chance earlier in lower leagues.

Ive updated my post, only one keeper under 21 played.

I agree players will get their chances earlier in lower leagues because they are loaned out from above, and the higher leagues will tend to want the experienced players.

That doesnt change the fact that Bentley is still very young for a keeper at any level and generally anyone under 21 has to be something special.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I'm afraid it's been clear for some time now that we'll be extremly unlikely to miss out by just one point again this season.Yesterday's news just underlines that.:sad:

How many points do you think we'll be clear by then?

The division's best forward, Big Bad Barry Corr, is back in training and was actually targetting tomorrow's game for a spot on the bench. Add him to a team that got 83 points last year and has just won four of the last five (with that fifth being a mugging from the referee) and the rest of the division must be getting nervous.

 

[dannypav]

Ive updated my post, only one keeper under 21 played.

I agree players will get their chances earlier in lower leagues because they are loaned out from above, and the higher leagues will tend to want the experienced players.

That doesnt change the fact that Bentley is still very young for a keeper at any level and generally anyone under 21 has to be something special.

I see what you're saying and have to admit that it is a risk to play Bentley.
You're right in that if we get hammered and he is at fault , then his confidence will be shot.
But I also think not playing him will also knock him back a bit too.
Damned if we do , damned if we don't.
I just have 'little' confidence in Belford TBH.
I think he's slow to react and makes the most of regulation saves for the cameras.
Sturrock didn't seem to break his neck in keeping him last year or pushing to get him in rather than Smith , so would suggest he also has some doubts too.

 

[Jam_Man]

Again, why would it knock his confidence when it is the norm not to be a first team keeper until 22 ?

He may be biting at the bit to play, but if we had more money we would have two older keepers and he wouldnt get a look in anyway. Its only our cutbacks that gave him a sniff anyway.

You may have little confidence in Belford (I personally think people overrated him) but he is still a steady keeper with experience, surely that should give you more confidence than a 19 year old who has barely played?

Sturrock may have doubts in Belford, but clearly not as many as he has in Bentley at this stage.

 

[Greebosan]

Yes, it may hurt Bentley's confidence, but that does depend to some degree on the way Sturrock presents it to him.

It's not unreasonable to get Belford back on loan for the sole reason that we would then have 2 keepers available instead of just the youngster in case of further injuries. I'm sure PS does have faith in Bentley, but can he really afford to take the risk of losing another keeper through injury/suspension and being left with no cover at all?

It may seem harsh on Bentley, but he will get his chance - he is obviously as keen as mustard which is a great thing to see but the overall good of the team has to come first.

I would say get Belford back even if PS does intend to give Bentley a test, if only for experienced cover. You never know, if by some miracle we find ourslves a couple of goals ahead in the JPT with 20 minutes to go and cruising, Bentley may get a run out. Unlikely I know, but possible for his development. Unfortunately we are not in the position of larger clubs who can treat certain competitions with contempt and put out a youth side - we have to take everything seriously which makes it hard to give players (particularly a GK) a trial in a 'live' game.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Ive updated my post, only one keeper under 21 played.

I agree players will get their chances earlier in lower leagues because they are loaned out from above, and the higher leagues will tend to want the experienced players.

That doesnt change the fact that Bentley is still very young for a keeper at any level and generally anyone under 21 has to be something special.

I think players are generally coming through earlier. The academy system means they are better prepared, changes in refereeing standards means they are less likely to be physically intimidated as they once would have been. I expect the trend will be for goalkeepers to be given a chance younger and younger and that it's only conservatism that is preventing this from happening. A look at England is probably instructive - Joe Hart was an England regular aged 22 and Butland was capped at 19. Other young keepers have been in the squad. This is the way football is moving. There are similar trends in other sports - be it cricket where the likes Alistair Cook was an England regular by 22 or the NFL where rookie QBs are now expected to start and flourish be it Cam Newton at the Panthers or Andy Dalton who actually reached the play-offs last year or Robert Griffin III at the Redskins this year.

Of course none of this means Bentley is necessarily any good, it's just we shouldn't hold his age against him.

 

[Jam_Man]

Nor should we use England goalkeepers as a yardstick.

As can be seen from the players who play at moment, there are plenty of players in their early 20's in goal, but 19 or whatever Bentley is I would class as too young in general, but of course it depends on the player.

The fact that Sturrock doesnt feel he is ready, but played Daniels, shows he isnt basing it on age alone and thats good enough for me.

Id not have a problem if he played Saturday, but Id rather more experience if its for more than one league game.

 

[dannypav]

I think players are generally coming through earlier. The academy system means they are better prepared, changes in refereeing standards means they are less likely to be physically intimidated as they once would have been. I expect the trend will be for goalkeepers to be given a chance younger and younger and that it's only conservatism that is preventing this from happening. A look at England is probably instructive - Joe Hart was an England regular aged 22 and Butland was capped at 19. Other young keepers have been in the squad. This is the way football is moving. There are similar trends in other sports - be it cricket where the likes Alistair Cook was an England regular by 22 or the NFL where rookie QBs are now expected to start and flourish be it Cam Newton at the Panthers or Andy Dalton who actually reached the play-offs last year or Robert Griffin III at the Redskins this year.

Of course none of this means Bentley is necessarily any good, it's just we shouldn't hold his age against him.

I just pictured Bentley reading this post and it made me LOL as they say.
His self worth growing with every line , nodding in agreement , even saying out loud "That's just my point" , "I am so ready".
And then ................ the last line ............. 'pop'..................'crash'..............'ouch'........back in your box Daniel