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ElstreeBlue

Coach
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
601
Location
Elstree
A lot of fans feel very depressed about what's been going on at our club recently, but can things get any worse?

I'm afraid the answer is yes.

The one great thing we still have at this club right now is Tilly & Brush. They've proved what they can do on a tight (but reasonable) budget and in every season so far (including this) they've achieved something spectacular in the circumstances that they faced.

They may have made mistakes with the way they spent the money when they were given more than the club could afford to spend. That sort of spending proved to be a gamble (but by the board, not T&B - who were simply given licence to spend a budget) and there was also not enough forward thinking by the board for likely relegation from the Championship, resulting in the ridiculous losses that have brought the club to its knees.

I also don't agree with everything T&B do, but who's to say they're perfect or that I'm right? Their record as a management team is incredible.

My concern, though, is how much more T&B can bear? They have worked miracles this season for the club not to be in the bottom four. Yet. However, even their amazing level-headedness that has been the source of so much good (things are never quite as bad as we fans may think when we're on a bad run, and never as good as we think when we're winning) seems to be dropping. They seem to be losing their calmness and positivity. It makes me wonder: just how much more of this can they take? Are they at wits end? Many other management teams would surely have resigned long ago. Presumably, it's only because they love the club so much that they haven't thrown in the towel, yet? But how much more can they bear?

There are people who could come in and save the club financially.

But how easy would it be to replace T&B? We've seen in the past that to find a really good management team who are loyal enough to stick around (and also whose media performances do not do themselves justice and so mean there are fewer jobs on offer for them than they deserve) are few and far between. Tilly & Brush are not the only possible good management team we could have, but they're surely the best long-term one. If they go, how easy would it be to replace them with at least as good a long-term replacement?

I hope that one of the following happens very quickly - before it's too late:

1 Ron Martin gets money from somewhere so he can continue to go it alone, get things back on track, and make it absolutely clear in a legally binding way for how the club will benefit long-term and have a great sustainable future at FF. I suspect the chances of this happening are slim based on evidence so far and the continuing lack of bank lending, but we can hope this is still a genuine option.

2 Ron Martin brings on board other wealthy businessmen who have the club's interest at heart, and achieve 1 above, but with Ron Martin getting a smaller slice of the cake than if he achieves 1 by himself.

3 Ron Martin realises he can't achieve his dream, he's going to end up dragging the club to its knees, and his legacy will not be some sort of hero but the man who destroyed our club. And consequently, he decides he's had enough and sells up to the consortium or some other person/group who have the club's interests at heart AND can ensure that the new stadium dream is realised, so that Ron Martin has a way out of the situation and the club can go forward.

It seems that 2 or 3 would be the best options for the club (as long as the people coming on board have the club's best long-term interests at heart, or at least no less than whatever RM has planned for the club at FF). They are still viable. But it's all down to one man to decide.

Otherwise, my biggest concern is that T&B could call it a day, we could be relegated and we'd be in worse position (because of the worse finances) than the dreadful position the club was in on the field before T&B took over. (And how viable would a decent sized stadium be for a club in that state?) If that scenario happened, it wouldn't take long for the fans to really turn nasty (I find it remarkable how much people have held back so far). A poor relationship with the fans would surely not help the club to achieve its goals.

So the answer as I see it: things could get better. But it's all down to Ron Martin to choose something that would work best for both him and the club. Otherwise, things could still get a lot worse for both him and the club unless he acts quickly. Lose T&B and that could escalate the club's downfall and they'd be very hard to replace.

It's not too late. Yet.
 
Last edited:
My take on the whole situation can be summed up by the following paragraph.

As a club we have rarely had large sums of money to spend on players so the recent situation is hardly new and we have always been a selling club but the quality of the form of our permanent players, of which we don't have too many, and our current loanees has meant our very recent results have been poor and with three of the toughest games coming up the outlook is bleak, hence the worry and disappointment of the fans. The total lack of physical progress of the new stadium, rumours of lack of regular payments to players, HMRC ,and businesses does absolutely nothing to instil confidence in anything SUFC.

Worrying times indeed.
 
My take on the whole situation can be summed up by the following paragraph.

As a club we have rarely had large sums of money to spend on players so the recent situation is hardly new and we have always been a selling club but the quality of the form of our permanent players, of which we don't have too many, and our current loanees has meant our very recent results have been poor and with three of the toughest games coming up the outlook is bleak, hence the worry and disappointment of the fans. The total lack of physical progress of the new stadium, rumours of lack of regular payments to players, HMRC ,and businesses does absolutely nothing to instil confidence in anything SUFC.

Worrying times indeed.

What he said.
 
A lot of fans feel very depressed about what's been going on at our club recently, but can things get any worse?

I'm afraid the answer is yes.

The one great thing we still have at this club right now is Tilly & Brush. They've proved what they can do on a tight (but reasonable) budget and in every season so far (including this) they've achieved something spectacular in the circumstances that they faced.

They may have made mistakes with the way they spent the money when they were given more than the club could afford to spend. That sort of spending proved to be a gamble (but by the board, not T&B - who were simply given licence to spend a budget) and there was also not enough forward thinking by the board for likely relegation from the Championship, resulting in the ridiculous losses that have brought the club to its knees.

I also don't agree with everything T&B do, but who's to say they're perfect or that I'm right? Their record as a management team is incredible.

My concern, though, is how much more T&B can bear? They have worked miracles this season for the club not to be in the bottom four. Yet. However, even their amazing level-headedness that has been the source of so much good (things are never quite as bad as we fans may think when we're on a bad run, and never as good as we think when we're winning) seems to be dropping. They seem to be losing their calmness and positivity. It makes me wonder: just how much more of this can they take? Are they at wits end? Many other management teams would surely have resigned long ago. Presumably, it's only because they love the club so much that they haven't thrown in the towel, yet? But how much more can they bear?

There are people who could come in and save the club financially.

But how easy would it be to replace T&B? We've seen in the past that to find a really good management team who are loyal enough to stick around (and also whose media performances do not do themselves justice and so mean there are fewer jobs on offer for them than they deserve) are few and far between. Tilly & Brush are not the only possible good management team we could have, but they're surely the best long-term one. If they go, how easy would it be to replace them with at least as good a long-term replacement?

I hope that one of the following happens very quickly - before it's too late:

1 Ron Martin gets money from somewhere so he can continue to go it alone, get things back on track, and make it absolutely clear in a legally binding way for how the club will benefit long-term and have a great sustainable future at FF. I suspect the chances of this happening are slim based on evidence so far and the continuing lack of bank lending, but we can hope this is still a genuine option.

2 Ron Martin brings on board other wealthy businessmen who have the club's interest at heart, and achieve 1 above, but with Ron Martin getting a smaller slice of the cake than if he achieves 1 by himself.

3 Ron Martin realises he can't achieve his dream, he's going to end up dragging the club to its knees, and his legacy will not be some sort of hero but the man who destroyed our club. And consequently, he decides he's had enough and sells up to the consortium or some other person/group who have the club's interests at heart AND can ensure that the new stadium dream is realised, so that Ron Martin has a way out of the situation and the club can go forward.

It seems that 2 or 3 would be the best options for the club (as long as the people coming on board have the club's best long-term interests at heart, or at least no less than whatever RM has planned for the club at FF). They are still viable. But it's all down to one man to decide.

Otherwise, my biggest concern is that T&B could call it a day, we could be relegated and we'd be in worse position (because of the worse finances) than the dreadful position the club was in on the field before T&B took over. (And how viable would a decent sized stadium be for a club in that state?) If that scenario happened, it wouldn't take long for the fans to really turn nasty (I find it remarkable how much people have held back so far). A poor relationship with the fans would surely not help the club to achieve its goals.

So the answer as I see it: things could get better. But it's all down to Ron Martin to choose something that would work best for both him and the club. Otherwise, things could still get a lot worse for both him and the club unless he acts quickly. Lose T&B and that could escalate the club's downfall and they'd be very hard to replace.

It's not too late. Yet.

If I can offer you just one crumb of comfort. Not matter how p****d off Tilly may be at the moment, I just can't see, due to his love for the club, how he would walk out right now and leave us in the lurch. I can see a possibility of him leaving at the end of the season but certainly not before
...............it's just not Tilly's style. God, I hope I'm right!
 
My take on the whole situation can be summed up by the following paragraph.

As a club we have rarely had large sums of money to spend on players so the recent situation is hardly new and we have always been a selling club but the quality of the form of our permanent players, of which we don't have too many, and our current loanees has meant our very recent results have been poor and with three of the toughest games coming up the outlook is bleak, hence the worry and disappointment of the fans. The total lack of physical progress of the new stadium, rumours of lack of regular payments to players, HMRC ,and businesses does absolutely nothing to instil confidence in anything SUFC.

Worrying times indeed.

Unfortunately, of late we've often 'sold' players out of contract so have ended up with players going for free.
 
Unfortunately, of late we've often 'sold' players out of contract so have ended up with players going for free.

Only Clarke and Gower I think. Others such as Eastwood, JCR, Bailey, Hooper, Barnard etc have all commanded a fee. And before that we'd have to go back many years for us to have collected a fee for a player. The only two who we may have got money for (Cort & Rawle) both left for free.
 
Yes. We could maybe be in the position of not having a club to support.
 
A lot of fans feel very depressed about what's been going on at our club recently, but can things get any worse?

I'm afraid the answer is yes.

The one great thing we still have at this club right now is Tilly & Brush. They've proved what they can do on a tight (but reasonable) budget and in every season so far (including this) they've achieved something spectacular in the circumstances that they faced.

They may have made mistakes with the way they spent the money when they were given more than the club could afford to spend. That sort of spending proved to be a gamble (but by the board, not T&B - who were simply given licence to spend a budget) and there was also not enough forward thinking by the board for likely relegation from the Championship, resulting in the ridiculous losses that have brought the club to its knees.

I also don't agree with everything T&B do, but who's to say they're perfect or that I'm right? Their record as a management team is incredible.

My concern, though, is how much more T&B can bear? They have worked miracles this season for the club not to be in the bottom four. Yet. However, even their amazing level-headedness that has been the source of so much good (things are never quite as bad as we fans may think when we're on a bad run, and never as good as we think when we're winning) seems to be dropping. They seem to be losing their calmness and positivity. It makes me wonder: just how much more of this can they take? Are they at wits end? Many other management teams would surely have resigned long ago. Presumably, it's only because they love the club so much that they haven't thrown in the towel, yet? But how much more can they bear?

There are people who could come in and save the club financially.

But how easy would it be to replace T&B? We've seen in the past that to find a really good management team who are loyal enough to stick around (and also whose media performances do not do themselves justice and so mean there are fewer jobs on offer for them than they deserve) are few and far between. Tilly & Brush are not the only possible good management team we could have, but they're surely the best long-term one. If they go, how easy would it be to replace them with at least as good a long-term replacement?

I hope that one of the following happens very quickly - before it's too late:

1 Ron Martin gets money from somewhere so he can continue to go it alone, get things back on track, and make it absolutely clear in a legally binding way for how the club will benefit long-term and have a great sustainable future at FF. I suspect the chances of this happening are slim based on evidence so far and the continuing lack of bank lending, but we can hope this is still a genuine option.

2 Ron Martin brings on board other wealthy businessmen who have the club's interest at heart, and achieve 1 above, but with Ron Martin getting a smaller slice of the cake than if he achieves 1 by himself.

3 Ron Martin realises he can't achieve his dream, he's going to end up dragging the club to its knees, and his legacy will not be some sort of hero but the man who destroyed our club. And consequently, he decides he's had enough and sells up to the consortium or some other person/group who have the club's interests at heart AND can ensure that the new stadium dream is realised, so that Ron Martin has a way out of the situation and the club can go forward.

It seems that 2 or 3 would be the best options for the club (as long as the people coming on board have the club's best long-term interests at heart, or at least no less than whatever RM has planned for the club at FF). They are still viable. But it's all down to one man to decide.

Otherwise, my biggest concern is that T&B could call it a day, we could be relegated and we'd be in worse position (because of the worse finances) than the dreadful position the club was in on the field before T&B took over. (And how viable would a decent sized stadium be for a club in that state?) If that scenario happened, it wouldn't take long for the fans to really turn nasty (I find it remarkable how much people have held back so far). A poor relationship with the fans would surely not help the club to achieve its goals.

So the answer as I see it: things could get better. But it's all down to Ron Martin to choose something that would work best for both him and the club. Otherwise, things could still get a lot worse for both him and the club unless he acts quickly. Lose T&B and that could escalate the club's downfall and they'd be very hard to replace.

It's not too late. Yet.

IIRC, didn't you suggest, a number of weeks ago, under the guise of good news, that number two on your list was quite possibly going to happen?
Presumably you had contacts that were informing you at that time........
................did that come to a dead end?
 
A lot of fans feel very depressed about what's been going on at our club recently, but can things get any worse?



1 Ron Martin gets money from somewhere so he can continue to go it alone, get things back on track, and make it absolutely clear in a legally binding way for how the club will benefit long-term and have a great sustainable future at FF. I suspect the chances of this happening are slim based on evidence so far and the continuing lack of bank lending, but we can hope this is still a genuine option.
quote]

.....this is the bit that has, and after all this time still makes me sceptical of this developement.

Generally waving your arm around and saying '.....outside incomes are vital to secure the future, therefore we have no alternaive etc, etc....' without being specific means bu**er all to me. Exactly WHERE will the outside income come from.....?
 
Could they be worse ?? its hard to see how but i suppose we could always be taken over by a bunch of faceless individuals calling themselves "The Consortium" whose plans for the are as unknown as RMs
 
A lot of fans feel very depressed about what's been going on at our club recently, but can things get any worse?



1 Ron Martin gets money from somewhere so he can continue to go it alone, get things back on track, and make it absolutely clear in a legally binding way for how the club will benefit long-term and have a great sustainable future at FF. I suspect the chances of this happening are slim based on evidence so far and the continuing lack of bank lending, but we can hope this is still a genuine option.
quote]

.....this is the bit that has, and after all this time still makes me sceptical of this developement.

Generally waving your arm around and saying '.....outside incomes are vital to secure the future, therefore we have no alternaive etc, etc....' without being specific means bu**er all to me. Exactly WHERE will the outside income come from.....?


Agreed but just as importantly, how much of it will come the Club's way and what proportion of this income will be offset by rental payments. All this information must be contained in the Club's business plan but still we get just vague generalities from RM.
 
I remember a Friday night Fourth Division game against Hull City 12 or 13 years ago.

Hull City were bottom and almost bankrupt, we'd been relegated two seasons on the trot , in massive financial difficulties thanks to Jobson re-mortgaging the club up to the hilt, were still sliding, there were vast expanses of empty seats around Roots Hall, we played worse than dreadfully, lost tamely 0-1 to drop into the relegation fight, and afterwards there were protests outside the ground with a number of cars being damaged in the process.

Yes, on balance, it can and has got worse.
 
Just predicted this weekends results and we'll be in the bottom 4 if I'm correct (which I'm usually not fortunately).
 
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