Question Can we afford promotion ?

[Norfolkshrimp]

We can't afford promotion in my opinion.

Where is the money going to come from to pay higher wages in Lge 1 ?

This squad of players won't hold their own without some significant additions. It's a viscious circle now that RM has ****ed the club up. So we go up and don't add any decent signings, what would you rather have another year in Lge 2 building a strong foundation and bringing some of the young players through or another season fighting relegation in a higher division ?

Would we even attract better players given our track record of not paying on time ?

Positives

Higher gate receipts possibly but not guaranteed
Higher share of the tv money for being a division higher

Negatives

Higher wages
Higher policing costs for the big name team visits
Higher chance of more missed wage payments and a further fall in our credibility in the game

Please add to each positive and negative, this is just to start it off

 

[Jam_Man]

There's no benefit from staying In league 2.

There are plenty if teams in league one who have no money, Bournemouth were in more trouble than us and are in 2nd !

We had no money last time we got promoted and whilst we had Eastwood etc to get us promoted I'm sure this team plus a couple of freebies would be enough to keep us in the division.

Cons: none
Pros: improved revenue.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Double edged sword. Can we afford it? Probably not - we're losing money in League 2 and I honestly think promotion to League 1 would make very little difference to the gate size. Maybe a couple of "big" name clubs but a majority that are no more glamorous than the Accrington's & Barnet's of this world.

Then again, if we don't go up what's the point of the club if we're just playing to survive League 2 year in/year out. That's not going to attract the younger and fairweather fans into the club - that way means suicide and the end of the club IMHO.

 

[chapperzUK]

I see your point about players not wanting to come here to play because of our record with paying players, but we signed 15+ players last summer, which included some player capable of playing at a higher level. There are always going to be negatives to promotion, but do the negatives to promotion outweigh the negatives to staying in league two.

It looks like Ferdinand will be off in the summer, and I reckon players like Barker and Mohsni will be off too if we don't get promotion. Either way, if we stay in league two or gain promotion, we will have to find players that are good enough for league one to either keep us up or to gain promotion.

Sturrock is an experienced manager who has convinced players to sign up when they could have gone elsewhere, and has changed our goals from league survival to a promotion push, so I am confident that he can find the players to keep us in league one IF we do get promoted.

 

[DTS]

Personally can see no benefits to staying at this level.

Have a bad season in L1 and you drop here, have a bad season in L2 and it's oblivion.

Worst case scenario we go up, don't strengten and come back down in which case we get another year of higher gates, tv monies etc. The squad are mainly journeyman anyway so it's not like your going to break up the core of a settled squad.

For me it's a no brainer.

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

Personally can see no benefits to staying at this level.

Have a bad season in L1 and you drop here, have a bad season in L2 and it's oblivion.

Worst case scenario we go up, don't strengten and come back down in which case we get another year of higher gates, tv monies etc. The squad are mainly journeyman anyway so it's not like your going to break up the core of a settled squad.

For me it's a no brainer.

What about the feel good factor ?

Who wants to suffer another year of poor results, a relegation season is so depressing.

Consolidation and developing some of the youngsters would build a better foundation for the future imo. I would sacrifice one season in a higher division for a more sustainable squad that could be developed over a five year period. This is the problem, the average supporter always wants promotion without considering the consequences that may bring.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Why would Ron Martin want promotion if it's his avowed intention to destroy the club?

 

[Napster]

Higher gates, more merchandise sales, better cash flow, possibly not higher wages if we keep the core of the squad who will still be on same contract...

 

[Napster]

This is the problem, the average supporter always wants promotion without considering the consequences that may bring.

what a ******* he is.

 

[canveyshrimper]

What about the feel good factor ?

Who wants to suffer another year of poor results, a relegation season is so depressing.

Consolidation and developing some of the youngsters would build a better foundation for the future imo. I would sacrifice one season in a higher division for a more sustainable squad that could be developed over a five year period. This is the problem, the average supporter always wants promotion without considering the consequences that may bring.

Easy answer to that is Bournemouth. Deducted 17 points two years ago, saved from going out of the league, promoted in 2009/2010, and in the top 6 in League 1 now. Who says it can't happen at Roots Hall?

 

[Mick]

Personally can see no benefits to staying at this level.

Have a bad season in L1 and you drop here, have a bad season in L2 and it's oblivion.

Worst case scenario we go up, don't strengten and come back down in which case we get another year of higher gates, tv monies etc. The squad are mainly journeyman anyway so it's not like your going to break up the core of a settled squad.

For me it's a no brainer.

Of course it is. Apart from the already stated increase in depth of the "safety net", if you're not trying and wanting to get promoted, it undermines the whole concept of league football. It'd be like watching a whole season of friendlies.

There is unlikely to be another season when the standard of League Two is as bad as this one.

 

[Cricko]

Of course it is. Apart from the already stated increase in depth of the "safety net", if you're not trying and wanting to get promoted, it undermines the whole concept of league football. It'd be like watching a whole season of friendlies.

There is unlikely to be another season when the standard of League Two is as bad as this one.

I agree with that point 100% that is why it would be good to get out of this dire division this year, we are never likely to come up against such rubbish teams for along time....unless this of course is where football is heading with the Premiersh*te trying their best to destroy it.

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

Well promotion to the CCC has played a big part in us getting into severe financial difficulties and it isn't the first time, I remember when we had the likes on Paul Byrne and other ***** players on huge money in the old first div. Yes I loved the big games but my point is not that a team shouldn't be aiming for promotion but that we are ill equipped to deal with it right now if RM continues to manage the finances.

Of course everyone wants their team playing at a higher level.

The original question was CAN WE AFFORD IT ?

 

[Cricko]

Can we afford anything at all, once we leave RH and no longer have Sainsbury's propping us up via RM..I see no incentive whatsoever for him to continue to or be able to pump in the supposed 100k a month that we apparently need to keep the club afloat once he has us off RH and into the horseshoe.

 

[Jedi Shrimper]

The original question was CAN WE AFFORD IT ?

Can we afford not to?

I understand your point Norfolkshrimp, but I can't see attendances (and thus income) rising if we stay in the division, they're probably more likely to go down. Add to that our best players could well leave, giving PS the same task as this season.

Maybe that's a worst case scenario, but as others have said getting into league 1 gives us a bigger safety net. Plus we could probably keep the nucleas of the squad together, adding a few other cheap non-league / out of contract types and give survival a decent shot with a good team spirit etc without spending too much more money but benefiting from higher revenues.

 

[Beefy]

Hopefully wages wouldn't go up too much if we were to get promotion, but our income definitely would. Ticket prices would increase, we'd have more games against bigger Clubs who will bring more fans to Roots Hall. Financially it's a no-brainer.

Personally I don't think you can ever turn down a promotion.

 

[Jai]

We can more than afford it, it's crucial. The revenue will not just increase in terms of TV revenue and gate receipts - a successful football team breeds interest in the community, there will be more sold in the club shop, we will be able to hold onto our better players (perhaps not all of them but it could be the deciding factor in keeping people like Barker and Hall), plus there will be fewer trips to northern hell holes and more to places like Col Ewe and Charlton. IF bricks are laid in the summer, there will be far more floating fans at the first game if its in League One and the club have built a reputation as a decent side again. Look at Saturday - 800 extra on the gate and that's after a few games unbeaten. When it comes to the football supporters in Southend, fickle is a massive understatement.

We are on our arse at the moment, we can't afford to pay the suppliers for paper for heaven's sake. There is no benefit to stagnating in League Two with ever-dwindling crowds and our best players riding off into the sunset at the first sniff of an offer from elsewhere.

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

I do think some of you are reading too much into this. I'm not saying we should stagnate in L2 i'm saying would one more season of consolidation and development of youngsters benefit us in the long term ?

Impossible to say but if we could go up next season with half the team full of promising youngsters on lowish wages it wouldn't be a bad thing would it ? Dare I say we could even sell them on after 2-3 yrs and benefit financially.

It wasn't long ago most of us were just praying we didn't get relegated this season !

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

I do think some of you are reading too much into this. I'm not saying we should stagnate in L2 i'm saying would one more season of consolidation and development of youngsters benefit us in the long term ?

Impossible to say but if we could go up next season with half the team full of promising youngsters on lowish wages it wouldn't be a bad thing would it ? Dare I say we could even sell them on after 2-3 yrs and benefit financially.

It wasn't long ago most of us were just praying we didn't get relegated this season !

Good thread NS, and you raise some interesting points.
With hindsight, some will say that getting promoted to the Championship in 05-06 was a step too far and was, in certain aspects, the catalyst for our recent financial problems.
I do not see that we have anything to lose by getting into L1 next season provided the extra expenditure is matched by the extra income. I certainly feel that the current squad can do enough in L1 to keep us there

 

[Pubey]

Hopefully wages wouldn't go up too much if we were to get promotion, but our income definitely would. Ticket prices would increase, we'd have more games against bigger Clubs who will bring more fans to Roots Hall. Financially it's a no-brainer.

Personally I don't think you can ever turn down a promotion.

absolutely. Seeing as RM and PS have both stated that they are desperate to get us out of this league, then perhaps the question should be "Can we afford not to get promoted?"