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Can we just think about this please?

fbm

Blue tinted optimist⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
10,050
Location
Cloud cuckoo land
Look, this is not a pro Ron, blue tinted (or should I say blue rinsed with that hair!) statement and I, like many others have been feeling increasingly disillusioned at the off field events of this season.

But one thing is blatantly obvious - we have no idea of actually what is going on behind the scenes!

As I have said before, if Ron is the crook and antichrist so many people think then there are several things that do not make sense here.

1) Ron Martin is a well educated and successful businessman. Therefore he will know that to spend next years season ticket sales in advance without having a plan on how to survive next year is just nonsensical and totally irresponsible financial planning. You cannot run any sort of business, let alone a property company, by employing such tactics. Property developers are probably the most financially astute businessmen around. We should actually be quite grateful we have someone with that level of knowledge and expertise at the helm.

2) There is absolutely no point is raising £2.1m to pay off a debt if we are going to go into administration a few weeks or months later. There is a reasonable school of thought that says he would not be able to outbid the consortium and would lose control but, as I understand it, if the club was owned by someone else he still owns the land and then would be the clubs landlord (of both RH and FF) with no vested interest in keeping the club alive so could milk the club for all it's worth, possibly even sending it into administration again and then buying it back.

3) He was happy we got the stay of execution today. Being a successful businessman isn't always about being open, honest and up front as then, in bad times, you can't get what you want. You have to be brash, sharp, decisive and generally not show your hand too much. It's a bit like a poker match. You never win anything by playing just the good hands and folding the rest. It's all about bluff and making your opponents think you have a stronger hand than you actually have. We would have probably gone under already under the control of many other owners.

4) Whilst the staff are clearly not happy at the wages issue, they still are giving everything for the club. If there was nothing on the horizon they would have given up or jumped ship long ago.

5) Webby isn't an idiot. He would not have come back unless there was something in it for a) him and b) the club.


All in all, there are many pieces of the jigsaw we don't and will never have but the signs are (to me, anyway) is that we are holding the enemy off until the cavalry arrives - and they are on their way.

Now, having said that, they may not arrive in time. But that is a wholly different scenario to there being no cavalry at all, which just doesn't add up for the reasons I have stated above.

So - it's tough, may get tougher BUT I do believe that it will all come good in the end - otherwise none of the actions taken so far make any sense at all.
 
Top post, but I fear it may fall on deaf ears as most of this board have already made their minds up as to the opinion of the chairman.
 
1) Ron Martin is a well educated and successful businessman. Therefore he will know that to spend next years season ticket sales in advance without having a plan on how to survive next year is just nonsensical and totally irresponsible financial planning. You cannot run any sort of business, let alone a property company, by employing such tactics. Property developers are probably the most financially astute businessmen around. We should actually be quite grateful we have someone with that level of knowledge and expertise at the helm.

Many people believe the Club have been mis-managed by the same "well-educated and successful businessman". What is your take on that?
 
Agree completely FBM, and ESB.

I'm pretty certain we are fighting fire with a tap at the moment, but in the not too distant future the firemen and their hoses will arrive to put out the fire.
 
You do speak an awful lot of sense there, fbm.

Unfortunately there are many, many questions that we won't get answers to any time in the near future, which means we'll all be playing the guessing game for sometime yet.
 
Agree completely FBM, and ESB.

I'm pretty certain we are fighting fire with a tap at the moment, but in the not too distant future the firemen and their hoses will arrive to put out the fire.

That is possibly true and correct but what happens if the water runs out in the meantime?
 
Agree completely FBM, and ESB.

I'm pretty certain we are fighting fire with a tap at the moment, but in the not too distant future the firemen and their hoses will arrive to put out the fire.

Gawd, let's hope Ricey isn't involved in this, he's only good for cats stuck in trees :)
 
I certainly dont hate RM, i just hate what is / has been happening recently and how there is nothing exactly on the horizon that makes me feel otherwise!
 
Many people believe the Club have been mis-managed by the same "well-educated and successful businessman". What is your take on that?

I refer you to my point 3 which contains the following

Being a successful businessman isn't always about being open, honest and up front as then, in bad times, you can't get what you want. You have to be brash, sharp, decisive and generally not show your hand too much. It's a bit like a poker match. You never win anything by playing just the good hands and folding the rest. It's all about bluff and making your opponents think you have a stronger hand than you actually have.

When businesses hit hard times you have to manage the cashflow. That means not paying wages, not paying bills, cutting expenses, doing anything to survive. That's just a hard fact of business life. That's what we are doing.
 
That is possibly true and correct but what happens if the water runs out in the meantime?

We all blow?

In all seriousness though, we just don't know. I'm led to believe, and others have hinted on here also, that good news is to come with regards FF and Sainsburys. How true it is, I don't know, but I have everything crossed.
 
Look, this is not a pro Ron, blue tinted (or should I say blue rinsed with that hair!) statement and I, like many others have been feeling increasingly disillusioned at the off field events of this season.

But one thing is blatantly obvious - we have no idea of actually what is going on behind the scenes!

As I have said before, if Ron is the crook and antichrist so many people think then there are several things that do not make sense here.

You are right that we have no idea of what is really going on but, and I speak as someone who has always tried to take RM at his word, what we do know makes it very hard for even the most generous/naive (take your pick) to do anything but fear the worst. I could just about accept last autumn's events of winding-up orders/pfa loans and transfer embargos as a one-off pending the arrival of the Sainsbury's money calvary. But to be in the same situation again a few months later makes it appear that RM is now totally out of control of events.
There are a hard-core of people on here who have always seen RM as crook/antichrist and I suspect we are going to have to put up with them reminding us of that more and more. However, I think most people think he is someone who has bitten off more than he can chew possibly with good mitigating factors rather than being an evil financial genius
 
5) Webby isn't an idiot. He would not have come back unless there was something in it for a) him and b) the club.

This point in particular struck a chord for me. By all accounts the vast majority of fans see Webb as a living legend - and Webb is obviously a good mate of RM and I also get the impression he is not the type to be bullshitted to - yet he is more than happy to come back to help the club (and RM by association) out. Should that not count for something?

If RM really was full of crap do you think Webb would have come back (again)?
 
I refer you to my point 3 which contains the following

When businesses hit hard times you have to manage the cashflow. That means not paying wages, not paying bills, cutting expenses, doing anything to survive. That's just a hard fact of business life. That's what we are doing.


I like your analogy of a poker game, so i'll respond in kind.

Ron may be bluffing. He might be a very good bluffer. But, as all good poker players know, you can't always get away with a bluff. Eventually someone will call you and you'll be found out.
 
This point in particular struck a chord for me. By all accounts the vast majority of fans see Webb as a living legend - and Webb is obviously a good mate of RM and I also get the impression he is not the type to be bullshitted to - yet he is more than happy to come back to help the club (and RM by association) out. Should that not count for something?

If RM really was full of crap do you think Webb would have come back (again)?

I also don't think he's got any financial need to come back so the question is would he do it simply for love of the club and the supporters? I've said all along I think Ron knew this would be a hard season, but not quite as hard as it has been. It was always going to be about tightening the belts and I think the squad needed to be down to bare bones with just a handful of "luxury" players, if that's the right word in this context. I firmly believe this WILL all be sorted out and that people just need to ride the storm for a little longer.
 
This point in particular struck a chord for me. By all accounts the vast majority of fans see Webb as a living legend - and Webb is obviously a good mate of RM and I also get the impression he is not the type to be bullshitted to - yet he is more than happy to come back to help the club (and RM by association) out. Should that not count for something?

If RM really was full of crap do you think Webb would have come back (again)?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but put yourself in his shoes. A good friend calls you up and asks for help. It basically comes with a no-risk feature for you. So do you decide to help, or tell your mate no?
 
I also don't think he's got any financial need to come back so the question is would he do it simply for love of the club and the supporters? I've said all along I think Ron knew this would be a hard season, but not quite as hard as it has been. It was always going to be about tightening the belts and I think the squad needed to be down to bare bones with just a handful of "luxury" players, if that's the right word in this context. I firmly believe this WILL all be sorted out and that people just need to ride the storm for a little longer.

Unfortunately though, the storm seems to get worse and worse. The question is, will the proverbial raft we're on disintegrate before the storm ends?
 
I'm not saying you're wrong, but put yourself in his shoes. A good friend calls you up and asks for help. It basically comes with a no-risk feature for you. So do you decide to help, or tell your mate no?

I know what you are saying. But if Webb loves the club as much as it is suggested would he have anything to do with RM if he thought he was not doing his best for SUFC?
 
I like your analogy of a poker game, so i'll respond in kind.

Ron may be bluffing. He might be a very good bluffer. But, as all good poker players know, you can't always get away with a bluff. Eventually someone will call you and you'll be found out.

Lol.. ok

He holds A, K, Q and J. We've had the flop and the turn, he's gone all in and is waiting for the 10 at the river.

Seriously though, I don't think he's bluffing. More hoping, but it is something I believe he has an element of control over. It may not come off - but he'll stand to lose as much, if not more, than we will in that scenario. There won't be any consortium in the wings to bail him out.
 
I know what you are saying. But if Webb loves the club as much as it is suggested would he have anything to do with RM if he thought he was not doing his best for SUFC?

Maybe Ron has admitted he's ****ed up big style and has pleaded with Webby to try and bail him out. Possible?

As has been mentioned, Webby loves the club and would probably want to help out, if not for Ron's sake then for the sake of the Club and it's fans
 
Maybe Ron has admitted he's ****ed up big style and has pleaded with Webby to try and bail him out. Possible?

As has been mentioned, Webby loves the club and would probably want to help out, if not for Ron's sake then for the sake of the Club and it's fans


Anythings possible at the moment - but RM admitting he's ****ed up??

Or maybe his 'bluff' is really as good as he believes. TBH I have no idea - just looking for some positives!!
 
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