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Careers and literacy service cuts

OldBlueLady

Junior Blues Coordinator⭐
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
48,100
Location
Benfleet
That people don't care about the standards of literacy anymore? When you see the standard of grammar used in some communications from people who really ought to know better, it's no surprise at all to me.
 

pickledseal

cowboy
Joined
Dec 6, 2004
Messages
4,933
Location
Upminster
That people don't care about the standards of literacy anymore? When you see the standard of grammar used in some communications from people who really ought to know better, it's no surprise at all to me.

I'm sure Gove will just this as another reason to demonise teachers ;)
 

Tangled up in Blue

Certified Senior Citizen⭐
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
31,390
Location
Sant Cugat del Vallès
That people don't care about the standards of literacy anymore? When you see the standard of grammar used in some communications from people who really ought to know better, it's no surprise at all to me.

OBL,
I think our "Masters" care all right,that their privately educated kids, grow up with the literacy and numeracy skills that they'll need to get jobs in the future.
The tragedy of all this,IMO,is that we know that young offenders instutions and prisons are disproportionally inhabited by people,who have less than average literacy and numeracy skills.
 

Dick Bate's Protege

Minister for Equality
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
1,943
Location
In a Tory Wonderland
OBL,
I think our "Masters" care all right,that their privately educated kids, grow up with the literacy and numeracy skills that they'll need to get jobs in the future.
The tragedy of all this,IMO,is that we know that young offenders instutions and prisons are disproportionally inhabited by people,who have less than average literacy and numeracy skills.

Especially New Labour, who preached 'state' and practised 'private'. God bless Socialists!!!
 

pickledseal

cowboy
Joined
Dec 6, 2004
Messages
4,933
Location
Upminster
Are you saying that teachers aren't responsible for the education of children?

Of course not, but when key funding is cut from vital services that help those most in need it makes the work of teachers and others with responsibility for education more difficult.

A friend of mine used to teach literacy in prisons. However due to cuts she was made redundant, not replaced, just the work she did doesn't happen anymore.
 

OldBlueLady

Junior Blues Coordinator⭐
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
48,100
Location
Benfleet
Are you saying that teachers aren't responsible for the education of children?
Teachers ARE told though, not to concentrate on spelling and grammar, but rather on content - unless in the context of an English lesson where spelling or grammar is the focus. In some schools I know also that teachers do not mark the whole of a piece of work every time........there is a new marking policy floating about whereby if the child exhibits 3 correct usages of the lesson focus then no further marking is required. They could, therefore, get the first 3 sums (for instance) right in a lesson using chunking in maths, and then get the rest wrong but no-one would know as there is no requirement to mark fully. I think as long as they mark fully one piece of work on a regular basis this is deemed acceptable. All very strange.
 
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
22,733
Location
Canvey Island
Of course not, but when key funding is cut from vital services that help those most in need it makes the work of teachers and others with responsibility for education more difficult.

A friend of mine used to teach literacy in prisons. However due to cuts she was made redundant, not replaced, just the work she did doesn't happen anymore.

Aah!! So it's all down to the nasty coalition and their cuts?

I'm sorry but it's way to glib & lazy to lay this entirely at the door of this government. Lieracy standards have been falling for years. I've seen applications for jobs at my company which at best are difficult to read because of dreadful handwriting, but are ill spelt and punctuated. That isn't down to cuts, and to be fair it isn't totally down to teachers.
 

pickledseal

cowboy
Joined
Dec 6, 2004
Messages
4,933
Location
Upminster
A friend of mine did their dissertation on the evolvement of language and I recall discussing it over a few pints...

The beauty of English is that it does change over time and even within a generation or so massive changes happen - do you write or speak like your grandparents did?

Interesting you comment on handwriting as one of the other parts of the research focused on how as nearly everything is typed that the need for good handwriting is no longer as an important skill - oh and that MS Word spelling/grammar check is defining more of what is wrong and right more than anything else... and obviously reducing the need to learn to spell correctly!

I blame Brown and Blair just as much for the state of education actually. Not a lot of point at moaning at them at this moment in time, the current government are the only ones who can make changes right now.
 

Tangled up in Blue

Certified Senior Citizen⭐
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
31,390
Location
Sant Cugat del Vallès
Aah!! So it's all down to the nasty coalition and their cuts?

I'm sorry but it's way to glib & lazy to lay this entirely at the door of this government. Lieracy standards have been falling for years. I've seen applications for jobs at my company which at best are difficult to read because of dreadful handwriting, but are ill spelt and punctuated. That isn't down to cuts, and to be fair it isn't totally down to teachers.

CS,
Please show me any examples that you're familiar with, where costs cutting measures taken by a Government,anywhere in the world, have actually promoted economic growth.I look forward to your reply.
Merry Xmas,btw.
 
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
22,733
Location
Canvey Island
A friend of mine did their dissertation on the evolvement of language and I recall discussing it over a few pints...

The beauty of English is that it does change over time and even within a generation or so massive changes happen - do you write or speak like your grandparents did?

Interesting you comment on handwriting as one of the other parts of the research focused on how as nearly everything is typed that the need for good handwriting is no longer as an important skill - oh and that MS Word spelling/grammar check is defining more of what is wrong and right more than anything else... and obviously reducing the need to learn to spell correctly!

I blame Brown and Blair just as much for the state of education actually. Not a lot of point at moaning at them at this moment in time, the current government are the only ones who can make changes right now.

Surely learning to both read and write (not type) is a fundemental skill? IMO MS Word doesn't make a person proffircent in spelling or grammar, by the nature of MS Word it's an American definition of English.

It's a good point about Blair & Brown, as it has been of successive Governments being seemingly fixated on targets rather than actual education. It seems to me on the outside that Gove is getting a lot of good press from all sides of the political divide, so he may be doing something right.
 
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
22,733
Location
Canvey Island
CS,
Please show me any examples that you're familiar with, where costs cutting measures taken by a Government,anywhere in the world, have actually promoted economic growth.I look forward to your reply.
Merry Xmas,btw.

The last couple of months of 2011 have so far promoted growth, albeit 0.6%, but growth nonetheless, and probably much to the chagrin of the doomsayers at the BBC.

Merry Christmas to you and yours Phil. :thumbsup:
 
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