Challenge yourself **Migrant death - contains disturbing picture**

[RHB]

I'm not trying to play devils advocate here, or even trying start up another immigration row, but I've got some genuine questions (due to my ignorance) that need answering.

1) If the government allows people to enter this country, at what number do we cap it, if at all? Then, if/when that quota is met, then what? We start turning people away, regardless?

2) Where do these people go, when they get to England? Assign them to randomly chosen towns/cities? Set up Refugee camps? How do we feed, clothe, house & care for them?

Not trying to sound cold towards these peoples plights, just asking genuinely

Good questions and you won't get answers to them that aren't wild guesses on here I'm afraid. Without doubt the Government will have scenario planned all these questions and then played the answers back against the popular response they think the nation will give. What they haven't reckoned on is the need to do something material quickly because of all of the latest media pictures and the rest of Europe asking us to do more.

I certainly wouldn't like to second guess what they (Gov't) will do, the nation seems split at the moment, half demanding we do more from a refugee point of view vs them that don't want us to do anymore than we are at the moment. It just too fluid to call at the moment.

 

[GBJ]

Good questions and you won't get answers to them that aren't wild guesses on here I'm afraid. Without doubt the Government will have scenario planned all these questions and then played the answers back against the popular response they think the nation will give. What they haven't reckoned on is the need to do something material quickly because of all of the latest media pictures and the rest of Europe asking us to do more.

I certainly wouldn't like to second guess what they (Gov't) will do, the nation seems split at the moment, half demanding we do more from a refugee point of view vs them that don't want us to do anymore than we are at the moment. It just too fluid to call at the moment.

Truth is, I believe the government haven't got a clue themselves. It's a very tough predicament. They're in a position they can't really win from.

If they open the doors, and say we'll take in X amount, they'll face widespread criticism. But if they refuse to open the doors, the current widespread criticism will continue. Catch 22.

 

[callan]

Truth is, I believe the government haven't got a clue themselves. It's a very tough predicament. They're in a position they can't really win from.

If they open the doors, and say we'll take in X amount, they'll face widespread criticism. But if they refuse to open the doors, the current widespread criticism will continue. Catch 22.

The issue is that successive governments have failed to tackle migration, leaving little appetite left amongst some parts of the public, for those in need.

I don't doubt we could take more migrants, but does that solve the issue?

 

[GBJ]

The issue is that successive governments have failed to tackle migration, leaving little appetite left amongst some parts of the public, for those in need.

I don't doubt we could take more migrants, but does that solve the issue?

I don't doubt any of that mate.

 

[OldBlueLady]

The problem is at the root, it's cause and effect at the very base level. Unfortunately, as has been seen with the removal of Sadam, getting rid of a tyrant isn't always the answer.

Like every person capable of compassion, my heart grieves for the loss of these innocent children who have been born into an impossible situation......

I don't know what the answer is. They said in a news report earlier that, out of the European countries, we donate the most hard cash through UNHCR, in aid to the Syrian camps where many refugees have ended up so that they can, at least, have safe shelter in their own country. I thought that was an interesting statistic.

I do agree though, that we cannot continue indefinitely taking refugees/immigrants, call them what you will. There has to come a point where the "full" sign is hoisted. I also think that there are many people who are scared to accept large numbers of Muslim refugees in light of some of the stuff going on in the world at the moment. It's all a huge and complicated mess that I have no idea who would be the best placed world leader to try and begin to solve.

I fear for humanity though, the world is a very scary place.

 

[Holy Joe]

I'm not sure I understand why, having reached a place of safety (Turkey), they're risking life to enter Europe.

 

[mrsblue]

I'm not sure I understand why, having reached a place of safety (Turkey), they're risking life to enter Europe.

This !

Why on earth would anyone put their small children into an overcrowded dinghy which is not seaworthy ?

 

[mrsblue]

The problem is at the root, it's cause and effect at the very base level. Unfortunately, as has been seen with the removal of Sadam, getting rid of a tyrant isn't always the answer.

Like every person capable of compassion, my heart grieves for the loss of these innocent children who have been born into an impossible situation......

I don't know what the answer is. They said in a news report earlier that, out of the European countries, we donate the most hard cash through UNHCR, in aid to the Syrian camps where many refugees have ended up so that they can, at least, have safe shelter in their own country. I thought that was an interesting statistic.

I do agree though, that we cannot continue indefinitely taking refugees/immigrants, call them what you will. There has to come a point where the "full" sign is hoisted. I also think that there are many people who are scared to accept large numbers of Muslim refugees in light of some of the stuff going on in the world at the moment. It's all a huge and complicated mess that I have no idea who would be the best placed world leader to try and begin to solve.

I fear for humanity though, the world is a very scary place.

The problem is IMO,

Every Labour politician and some Tories too,when asked how many they all refused except Cooper who thinks potentially we could take 10,000 every month if circumstances allow.Having asked the same question to some on here which they all duly never replied too.

Many have said we should take them but cannot answer how many!

If we take 50,000,how long before another 50,000 want to come here.It's ridiculous for anyone to believe we as a country can take an infinite number.

 

[RHB]

The problem is IMO,

Every Labour politician and some Tories too,when asked how many they all refused except Cooper who thinks potentially we could take 10,000 every month if circumstances allow.Having asked the same question to some on here which they all duly never replied too.

Many have said we should take them but cannot answer how many!

If we take 50,000,how long before another 50,000 want to come here.It's ridiculous for anyone to believe we as a country can take an infinite number.

Ok, just for you, we should take 10,000. I've just made that up. Better now?

 

[mrsblue]

Ok, just for you, we should take 10,000. I've just made that up. Better now?

Ok,


We take 10,000 now and would you then refuse anymore ?

 

[DTS]

Ok,


We take 10,000 now and would you then refuse anymore ?

How many of that 10,000 will want to bring in other family members?
How many of that 10,000 will be in anything other than menial employment in two years?
Where are the homes?
Where the the jobs?
Where are the school places?

 

[mrsblue]

How many of that 10,000 will want to bring in other family members?
How many of that 10,000 will be in anything other than menial employment in two years?
Where are the homes?
Where the the jobs?
Where are the school places?

Exactly !

Cameron has caved in with the pressure and said we can take 4,000,add their family members and the 4,000 could easily become 50,000.

Bad times for them and I feel us too.

 

[Pubey]

10,000 is a tiny amount compared to the amount of babies born in the UK each year - which is quite an unstable statistic anyway (our population has been growing relatively steadily but year by year can vary by 5% or so).

Seeing as 800,000 babies are born per year, and we don't know for sure whether it'll be 750,000 or 850,000 in the future, we have systems in place to account for that.

10,000 refugees entering our country isn't going to suddenly cause the whole country to collapse.

However we do need to continue to invest in infrastructure and look to work out what is sustainable, both in terms of net economic migration, but also allow for more sudden crises where we need to help refugees.

I was completely shocked to hear that right now, there are the highest number of official refugees in the world, ever.

To me, it's clear that we aren't pulling our weight compared to other European and developed countries. We can't just throw money at it.

 

[callan]

10,000 is a tiny amount compared to the amount of babies born in the UK each year - which is quite an unstable statistic anyway (our population has been growing relatively steadily but year by year can vary by 5% or so).

Seeing as 800,000 babies are born per year, and we don't know for sure whether it'll be 750,000 or 850,000 in the future, we have systems in place to account for that.

10,000 refugees entering our country isn't going to suddenly cause the whole country to collapse.

However we do need to continue to invest in infrastructure and look to work out what is sustainable, both in terms of net economic migration, but also allow for more sudden crises where we need to help refugees.

I was completely shocked to hear that right now, there are the highest number of official refugees in the world, ever.

To me, it's clear that we aren't pulling our weight compared to other European and developed countries. We can't just throw money at it.

For me, I would take the refugees but this would be at the expense of free movement from Europe....it's time to take control of our own borders.
The EU is a total mess on this, and in total dead lock on how to proceed.

 

[mrsblue]

10,000 is a tiny amount compared to the amount of babies born in the UK each year - which is quite an unstable statistic anyway (our population has been growing relatively steadily but year by year can vary by 5% or so).

Seeing as 800,000 babies are born per year, and we don't know for sure whether it'll be 750,000 or 850,000 in the future, we have systems in place to account for that.

10,000 refugees entering our country isn't going to suddenly cause the whole country to collapse.

However we do need to continue to invest in infrastructure and look to work out what is sustainable, both in terms of net economic migration, but also allow for more sudden crises where we need to help refugees.

I was completely shocked to hear that right now, there are the highest number of official refugees in the world, ever.

To me, it's clear that we aren't pulling our weight compared to other European and developed countries. We can't just throw money at it.

Spain has only taken 2000 in the past year,I don't hear anyone slagging off the Spanish,Why don't the migrants wish to settle there?

 

[Pubey]

For me, I would take the refugees but this would be at the expense of free movement from Europe....it's time to take control of our own borders.
The EU is a total mess on this, and in total dead lock on how to proceed.

I think now is the time for all EU nations to all be taking in refugees, and we're not doing as much as we should in this regard.

In a year or two's time, when things have hopefully settled down, then is the time to make firmer plans and deals with the EU and push for reform. Starting to use this current crisis as a basis for negotiating what "we"* want, isn't going to help our (already poor) standing, internationally.

*personally I don't want tighter controls, but I'm grown up enough to recognise that isn't a popular position.

 

[Pubey]

Spain has only taken 2000 in the past year,I don't hear anyone slagging off the Spanish,Why don't the migrants wish to settle there?

cos Barna.:winking:

Spain is economically unstable. Plus not many people in the middle east speak Spanish. Plus Spain is smaller than the UK.

 

[mrsblue]

For me, I would take the refugees but this would be at the expense of free movement from Europe....it's time to take control of our own borders.
The EU is a total mess on this, and in total dead lock on how to proceed.

Totally agree,

Germany has bullied Greece into joining the Eurozone with the result being that Greece are bankrupt with many of their people actually dying through lack of medicine and food,no real outcry about that though.

Now Germany demand other countries take their share of migrants,they invited them so let them take them all !

 

[mrsblue]

cos Barna.:winking:

Spain is economically unstable. Plus not many people in the middle east speak Spanish. Plus Spain is smaller than the UK.

Come on Pubes be realistic,the migrants don't fancy Spain because they know the Spanish won't give them hand outs as in healthcare ,benefits,education and so on.

 

[DTS]

10,000 is a tiny amount compared to the amount of babies born in the UK each year - which is quite an unstable statistic anyway (our population has been growing relatively steadily but year by year can vary by 5% or so).

Seeing as 800,000 babies are born per year, and we don't know for sure whether it'll be 750,000 or 850,000 in the future, we have systems in place to account for that.

10,000 refugees entering our country isn't going to suddenly cause the whole country to collapse.

However we do need to continue to invest in infrastructure and look to work out what is sustainable, both in terms of net economic migration, but also allow for more sudden crises where we need to help refugees.

I was completely shocked to hear that right now, there are the highest number of official refugees in the world, ever.

To me, it's clear that we aren't pulling our weight compared to other European and developed countries. We can't just throw money at it.

All this assumes the 10,000 you take ends the problem. It does not as more and more will come. Once you let in 10,000 you will open the flood gates in my humble opinion.

We were told the Polish would not come in large number and they came here on mass. These people will largely be dependent on the UK for the next 20 years until a new generation comes though. So you 10,000 x £ cost per person x 20 years is actually a hell of a lot. And again you assume this 10,000 people is the end of it where as I think it is the start.