Challenge yourself **Migrant death - contains disturbing picture**

[callan]

I think now is the time for all EU nations to all be taking in refugees, and we're not doing as much as we should in this regard.

In a year or two's time, when things have hopefully settled down, then is the time to make firmer plans and deals with the EU and push for reform. Starting to use this current crisis as a basis for negotiating what we want, isn't going to help our (already poor) standing, internationally.

I would have thought now was the perfect time, the crisis is now....and has been coming for a fair while.
As far as international standing is concerned we are spending more than most on overseas aid, and opened up our doors to Eastern Europe, when Germany and France wouldn't.
Merkel plays the press beautifully by saying let them come, despite having nothing in place to allow refugees to safe transit...which is thoroughly irresponsible.

 

[DTS]

Come on Pubes be realistic,the migrants don't fancy Spain because they know the Spanish won't give them hand outs as in healthcare ,benefits,education and so on.

Nor do they fancy Hungary, Romania, Czech, France, Greece etc where they are in no danger. The poor dead boys Dad was in Turkey (A country 2.5m Brits a year go on holiday per year) for three years yet he didn't want to stay there.

 

[mrsblue]

Nor do they fancy Hungary, Romania, Czech, France, Greece etc where they are in no danger. The poor dead boys Dad was in Turkey (A country 2.5m Brits a year go on holiday per year) for three years yet he didn't want to stay there.

You forgot Italy !

 

[Pubey]

All this assumes the 10,000 you take ends the problem. It does not as more and more will come. Once you let in 10,000 you will open the flood gates in my humble opinion.

We were told the Polish would not come in large number and they came here on mass. These people will largely be dependent on the UK for the next 20 years until a new generation comes though. So you 10,000 x £ cost per person x 20 years is actually a hell of a lot. And again you assume this 10,000 people is the end of it where as I think it is the start.

Well the discussion was about '10,000' so I focussed on putting that into context. My personal view is that whether it's 10,000, 50,000 or 100,000... as a country we have the capacity to accommodate that. We have universal networks and systems which would enable us to quite quickly find areas where they can settle and get what they require. Sure, it wouldn't be easy, and it'd be expensive at the start, but we aren't a poor country and we have a long history of being generous to those in genuine need.

I'm not exactly sure what the mass problems are that were caused by the migration of Polish people in the last 10 years. Yes a large number move here when they joined the EU, what specifically are the issues that they've caused? We've under-invested in infrastructure for the past 50 years, so that's not really the fault of recent EU migration, it just compounded it.

 

[Pubey]

Nor do they fancy Hungary, Romania, Czech, France, Greece etc where they are in no danger. The poor dead boys Dad was in Turkey (A country 2.5m Brits a year go on holiday per year) for three years yet he didn't want to stay there.

Thousands of parents are putting their families on leaking dinghies and rafts to get to other countries. It could be that being a penniless refugee in Turkey (or Hungary, Bulgaria etc) is a terrible situation. The fact that loving and sensible people are forced into these horrendous situations to me says it all about their need, not their greed.

 

[DTS]

Thousands of parents are putting their families on leaking dinghies and rafts to get to other countries. It could be that being a penniless refugee in Turkey (or Hungary, Bulgaria etc) is a terrible situation. The fact that loving and sensible people are forced into these horrendous situations to me says it all about their need, not their greed.

What need do the people in Hungary have right now? What about the migrants that are in France desperate to get to England.

Why are they rioting to get to Germany or the UK Are they not perfectly safe in Hungary and France?

 

[The Big Shrimp]

In an ideal world the thousands would be split equally between the 28 EU members and the costs accordingly. In the real world we all know where they want to go!

Just out of interest, how many homeless families are we failing to provide homes for? Considerably more than the numbers being mentioned to stay in the UK.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Spain is economically unstable. Plus not many people in the middle east speak Spanish. Plus Spain is smaller than the UK.

Bollocks is it.


A quick Google search tells me Spain is 504,645 km² compared to the UK's 243,610 km²! Unlike you to make a rash statement like that!

Hearing on the news this morning that Cameron is suggesting we will take refugees from the UNHCR "villages" to deter people from making the perilous trips and risking their and their loved ones' lives. This seems to me a sensible approach.

I still have an issue with the fact that, wherever we are seeing these people on news reports, those shown are predominantly young men, and their behaviour (rioting and demonstrating etc) doesn't exactly endear them to the world at large.

 

[Pubey]

Bollocks is it.

View attachment 3668
A quick Google search tells me Spain is 504,645 km² compared to the UK's 243,610 km²! Unlike you to make a rash statement like that!

Hearing on the news this morning that Cameron is suggesting we will take refugees from the UNHCR "villages" to deter people from making the perilous trips and risking their and their loved ones' lives. This seems to me a sensible approach.

I still have an issue with the fact that, wherever we are seeing these people on news reports, those shown are predominantly young men, and their behaviour (rioting and demonstrating etc) doesn't exactly endear them to the world at large.

In terms of population

 

[OldBlueLady]

In terms of population

You didn't say that though. If they have a smaller population and larger area, then shouldn't Spain be taking more? That is what I struggle with here, so Germany have taken more refugees/migrants....but they are a much, much bigger country in area so have more space to put them, we simply don't have the space to take the numbers that some are expecting we should. What's the idea, to build a new town to house them? That wouldn't work here.

 

[Pubey]

You didn't say that though. If they have a smaller population and larger area, then shouldn't Spain be taking more? That is what I struggle with here, so Germany have taken more refugees/migrants....but they are a much, much bigger country in area so have more space to put them, we simply don't have the space to take the numbers that some are expecting we should. What's the idea, to build a new town to house them? That wouldn't work here.

Maybe. But the land mass argument is completely bonkers. 2.27% of the land in the UK has been built on. If we wanted we could build a skyscraper with the footprint of roots hall (maybe this is Ron's plan!) which could house 20,000 people. The issues isn't space, it's money.

So the size of the population is more important, because it correlates to the size of the economy, the size of the existing infrastructure, and the capacity to bring in a large number of refugees but for them to not significantly alter the general cultural/social make-up of a country.

 

[mrsblue]

You didn't say that though. If they have a smaller population and larger area, then shouldn't Spain be taking more? That is what I struggle with here, so Germany have taken more refugees/migrants....but they are a much, much bigger country in area so have more space to put them, we simply don't have the space to take the numbers that some are expecting we should. What's the idea, to build a new town to house them? That wouldn't work here.

Plus Spain has a vast amount of empty properties including an empty city near Madrid,yet the chance of safety
whilst living in the sun simply doesn't appeal to the migrants !

Put it another way,

There are 2 police stations in a town,one is just up the road but the other is miles away,you or I are being chased by muggers,anyone with any sense would go to the nearest point of safety,not cross the town .

Isnt my analogy exactly what these migrants are doing.

 

[RHB]

Wow. This thread is a bit like a bonfire, it dies down a bit and then somebody gives it a bit of poke and whoosh, up it goes again. My 10,000 projection yesterday was a complete bit of nonsense as mrsblue wanted a figure to play with by the way.

 

[superblue24]

OBL is bang on here.

The picture, whilst very sad tells a story the size of a microbe in terms of "the bigger picture". There are so many reasons not to act on emotion and impulse by just letting people in en masse. I note that a video I saw on Facebook showing "people" acting like complete animals at Calais and forcing truck doors open and HITTING innocent passengers in stationery vehicles through windows has not made it onto front page news.

im not adverse to taking a limited number of migrants into the country, but we are one of the smaller countries in terms of "land mass" (which is the important stat) so that needs to be factored in, we can't just take the number of people needing refuge and divvy them out equally. As has been said, Spain is safe and has a huge amount of space.

Going back to the bigger picture, surely we should be concentrating on making the countries from where these people came from safer places to live? Simply taking them onboard in the UK seems so short sighted. In addition, anyone we do take in need to be integrated into society for their own good (manners, social etiqueette, language education, values etc). If we end up with a group of people who do not respect our country and its natives, they will be stigmatised instantly and find themselves with huge challenges being made to feel welcome.

 

[mrsblue]

Wow. This thread is a bit like a bonfire, it dies down a bit and then somebody gives it a bit of poke and whoosh, up it goes again. My 10,000 projection yesterday was a complete bit of nonsense as mrsblue wanted a figure to play with by the way.

You will get splinters sitting on that fence !

 

[superblue24]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/490394/UK-Driver-attacked-by-immigrants-boarding-Calais-lorry

 

[RHB]

You will get splinters sitting on that fence !

Sometimes its better to be bit prudent, rather than rushing in and just saying things for effect. Not that you do that, obviously.

 

[mrsblue]

Sometimes its better to be bit prudent, rather than rushing in and just saying things for effect. Not that you do that, obviously.

I only say what I think and believe in,nothing wrong with that.

 

[TrueBlue]

We don't want them we don't need them!

Does anybody have Latvias stance on this or maybe Norway? Or say Iceland?? AGAIN AND AGAIN WE HAVE TO HELP

Well no I feel nothing for them and I don't want them here, we have our own issues in this country

 

[rigsby]

In terms of population

GB 61.5 million

Spain 45 million

England is the most densely populated country in Europe. We have over 22 million in the south east alone.
London has increased by 1m in the last decade to 8m. With predictions of 10m in the next 20yrs.

Due to our country being full of NIMBY's we build less houses than anyone in the world, who's population is increasing.
Forget a private pension get your self some property and rent it to immigrants. That way every time the tunnel at Calais is stormed you can put the rent up. If thousands of Polish builders turn up and buy houses then your capital assets will increase, with the added bonus of cheaper property maintenance. That way if you don't like what's happening in Briton in 20years time you can retire off to anywhere in the world.