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Sowfend Not Sarfend

Happy Warrior
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
42
After seeing talk on here about 'tinpot' clubs and with our new stadium hovering somewhere over a very large hill, I was looking back at the football league tables for the first season I followed the results week-in, week-out - the 1970/71 season. What struck me was although most clubs like us have been through numerous promotions and relegations, ultimately many of them have ended up more or less where they were.

75 out of the 92 clubs are either in the same division or have moved up or down only one division
4 out of 92 have gone up two divisions - Villa, Swansea, Brentford, Bournemouth
11 out of 92 have gone down two divisions - Coventry, Carlisle, Luton, Portsmouth, Oxford, Halifax, Torquay, Bristol Rovers, Wrexham, Stockport, Barrow
2 out of 92 have dropped more than two divisions - Darlington, Workington

Even the 13 clubs promoted to the league seem to have the same trend whereby initial advances are slowly lost - Wigan are the highest climbers but are on a downward slope now. Of the four new clubs in League 1, two - Crawley and Yeovil are on the slide.

The obvious implication to Southend for me is that we are very unlikley to ever be an established Championship club. My own view of our natural position, if were well run, is League 1 in a 15,000 ground with occasional forays into the Championship and occasional visits to League 2.

Some stats for the 70/71 season make interesting reading for old codgers like myself tempted to believe the old days were always better - we finished 18th in the old division 4 with an average home league crowd of 5,446 and scored 53 league goals.
 
Far too much sense spoken here for Shrimperzone!
However whilst you may have a point about clubs having a natural level (or average position), by definition there must also be peaks and troughs - these are the bits we all get excited about. Burnley have had a season in the prem. Blackpool & Swindon too. Maybe Bournemouth? Smaller clubs can do it if they get on a roll. Unless you involve Barry Fry of course.
 
Good stats SNF. It makes me wonder sometimes, when zoners go on about how fantastic we used to be, why we are not European champions by now.
 
Far too much sense spoken here for Shrimperzone!
However whilst you may have a point about clubs having a natural level (or average position), by definition there must also be peaks and troughs - these are the bits we all get excited about. Burnley have had a season in the prem. Blackpool & Swindon too. Maybe Bournemouth? Smaller clubs can do it if they get on a roll. Unless you involve Barry Fry of course.

Talking about Burnley, I remember them having to win on the last day to stay in the league a few years back.

Luckily they were playing Orient!
 
I've always thought this you will always return to your level look at Wigan always new they would
 
I've always thought so, and agree if you look at our history lower L1 should be our natural position. Smaller clubs who appear to have established themselves at a higher level are few & far between. Wigan did it for a few years, Reading are still there, but it's taken very rich owners to keep them there. Bournemouth are a very well managed club but none the less are propped up by outside money and I'll bet 10 years from now they'll be back in L1 or L2.
 
A club's natural level is really just a function of the size of its crowd. The more people that come to watch the more money you'll make. The more money you make the more you can afford to pay players. The more you pay players the better players you'll attract.

We can't compete with Championship clubs let alone Premiership clubs at Roots Hall. Without further development even FF will only really give us a shot at the Championship.

For us to be a success and move our natural level up a notch we need a new stadium. The Southend conurbation is the same size as, if not bigger than, Middlesbrough. We therefore have the potential to move our natural level should FF ever get built.
 
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A club's natural level is really just a function of the size of its crowd. The more people that come to watch the more money you'll make. The more money you make the more you can afford to pay players. The more you pay players to better players you'll attract.

We can't compete with Championship clubs let alone Premiership clubs at Roots Hall. Without further developmen even FF will only really give us a shot at the Championship.

For us to be a success and move our natural level up a notch we need a new stadium. The Southend conurbation is the same size as, if not bigger than, Middlesbrough. We therefore have the potential to move our natural level should FF ever get built.

Good post, points well made. People may love Roots Hall but the seating is generally poor, sight lines average at best and the overall match day experience lacking in amenities and comfort that are required to attract "floating" supporters to keep coming. Obviously success on the pitch is vital BUT not enough on it's own to take and keep us in a Championship level.
 
There are many clubs far bigger than us strutting their stuff in league 1,whilst massive clubs face relegation from the championship.

We are what we are which is a club bouncing around league 1 and 2 with the occasional flirt with the second level.
 
I've always thought this you will always return to your level look at Wigan always new they would

Thing is there are circumstances that can change that "level"

Wigan have been punching well above their weight for years, but it wasnt that long ago they used to get under 2,000 a game, now they are getting 12,000. Obviously that will reduce when they go down, but they wont ever get down to their old levels, so the last decade for them has certainly boosted them from a tiny club.

At our current levels of support we are a mid-league one side at best, who knows, if the stadium ever gets built that could help raise us to a big league one side
 
Thing is there are circumstances that can change that "level"

Wigan have been punching well above their weight for years, but it wasnt that long ago they used to get under 2,000 a game, now they are getting 12,000. Obviously that will reduce when they go down, but they wont ever get down to their old levels, so the last decade for them has certainly boosted them from a tiny club.

At our current levels of support we are a mid-league one side at best, who knows, if the stadium ever gets built that could help raise us to a big league one side


I fear for Wigan as their stadium requires decent money to actually use it,relegation look's a certainty and if they struggle next season the crowds will fall further.i can easily see crowds of 4000 knocking about in a 25000 capacity stadium.Whelan has virtually quit and Wigan are no longer spending money on their pitch.
 
I fear for Wigan as their stadium requires decent money to actually use it,relegation look's a certainty and if they struggle next season the crowds will fall further.i can easily see crowds of 4000 knocking about in a 25000 capacity stadium.Whelan has virtually quit and Wigan are no longer spending money on their pitch.

That's exactly the point, and it applies to us if / when we ever get a new stadium. We MUST build something we can afford to maintain - build something that's too big and glossy, and it will be like signing our own death warrant. 4000 in a 22,000 seater stadium is what Ron Martin wants to do to us. What atmosphere will that generate?
 
I fear for Wigan as their stadium requires decent money to actually use it,relegation look's a certainty and if they struggle next season the crowds will fall further.i can easily see crowds of 4000 knocking about in a 25000 capacity stadium.Whelan has virtually quit and Wigan are no longer spending money on their pitch.

They are helped by having a very successful rugby league team using it from February to October though. Place was sold out on Good Friday (and I believe Pubey may have been among the crowd)
 
I've always thought this you will always return to your level look at Wigan always new they would
They may be coming back down but i wouldn't say no multiple premier league seasons, winning the Fa Cup and playing European football. Wigan will work their way up again anyway, if they get relegated this season they'll be back in the Championship in 2-3 years time.
 
This is real talk. Clubs just go around in circles unless there really is some significant investment and drastic change i.e Swansea.
 
A club's natural level is really just a function of the size of its crowd. The more people that come to watch the more money you'll make. The more money you make the more you can afford to pay players. The more you pay players to better players you'll attract.

We can't compete with Championship clubs let alone Premiership clubs at Roots Hall. Without further developmen even FF will only really give us a shot at the Championship.

For us to be a success and move our natural level up a notch we need a new stadium. The Southend conurbation is the same size as, if not bigger than, Middlesbrough. We therefore have the potential to move our natural level should FF ever get built.

Potential of the area too. Changing countries, Deportivo la Coruña were a top side in Spain for around a decade from the mid 90s. Perfect storm of an ambitious chairman, some good imports and fine local talent but it was difficult to sustain that level of success in a small market and they are now back to the yo-yo club they have been historically.

For us, we'll always have the bright lights of London a short train ride away. West Ham moving in to the Olympic Stadium won't help in that respect.
 
That's exactly the point, and it applies to us if / when we ever get a new stadium. We MUST build something we can afford to maintain - build something that's too big and glossy, and it will be like signing our own death warrant. 4000 in a 22,000 seater stadium is what Ron Martin wants to do to us. What atmosphere will that generate?

We dont get 4,000 at Roots Hall and we would certainly see a rise in profile should it be built.
 
They are helped by having a very successful rugby league team using it from February to October though. Place was sold out on Good Friday (and I believe Pubey may have been among the crowd)


How long before the rugby team demands the football team to vacate the stadium citing the footballers are destroying the pitch.

Money talks sadly.
 
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