• Welcome to the ShrimperZone forums.
    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which only gives you limited access.

    Existing Users:.
    Please log-in using your existing username and password. If you have any problems, please see below.

    New Users:
    Join our free community now and gain access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and free. Click here to join.

    Fans from other clubs
    We welcome and appreciate supporters from other clubs who wish to engage in sensible discussion. Please feel free to join as above but understand that this is a moderated site and those who cannot play nicely will be quickly removed.

    Assistance Required
    For help with the registration process or accessing your account, please send a note using the Contact us link in the footer, please include your account name. We can then provide you with a new password and verification to get you on the site.

Angell Delight

Life President
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
7,449
Location
Brentwood
...but for me its come as no surprise that these 3 straight defeats have come immediately after the Barnet FA Cup tie. I said to Draft Shrimper and statski that I'd be quite happy this season to go out at the first hurdle as having been a Shrimper for 18+ years I've seen many a promising season (5 or 6 I can think of) either wrecked or nearly ruined by cup competitions. I predicted that there was a possibility the wheels could come off after Barnet cos I've seen it and I'm sure many others have seen it many times before (remember this coming after a great run of form and a fine win at Bristol City) and unfortunately thats whats happened. There is no doubt in my mind that the FA cup is a most unwelcome distraction this season, no matter how much players try to put it out of their heads it does occasionally upset the rhythm of a side going well in league competition. Yes 2 out of the three sides we've played (well Swansea at least) are very strong opposition but its the manner of the defeats that worries me - for the players we have we have been diabolical in those 3 games and whilst it is inevitable that even the best sides can have a bad day at the office to perform like that in 3 consecutive games is far too coincidental with the quality we have in our starting X1. You can argue the fact we've missed Guttridge for 2 of these games but at the end of the day we have Benno who was one of the most physical box-to-box players in League Two last season and is certainly capable of filling Gutts boots without any problems whatsoever, infact we've missed his ability to drive the side on while he was out injured. For me also he was excellent on the right during most of our run and much of that was built on our solidity in midfield and when Guttridge returns I'd love to see Benno back on the right with JCR on the left side. Infact I'd like to see that now with Jay in the middle, Tilly MUST do this now to make us more solid in the middle of the park.

In my opinion it is quite possible that the rhythm has been upset by the FA Cup, particularly as we have been given a home tie which we should win. Me personally I think the worst possible scenario could be if we were to get through the 2nd Round and get a big Premier$hite tie which could hamper our league form even further until the 3rd Round in January - should this happen it could quite easily wreck our season. To some (probably younger) posters on here that may sound like a crazy statement to make but looking at the bigger picture I would quite easily swap a Premier$hite tie and one single day to remember for a (possible) place in the Championship come May where we would be guaranteed a 3rd Round spot each year we stay in there and more importantly to play top sides and see quality football week-in-week-out. To some sides who are struggling cup football can kickstart their campaigns, for us I fear it COULD cost us this year should we progress further. I said to Draft and statski before Barnet that I thought there was a possibility we could hit a wobble after Barnet for this reason and was laughed at, I only hope that come the New Year I'm not able to say "I told you so" cos believe me I don't want to.

Was discussing this with my Uncle this afternoon who has been a Shrimper for 40 years and he agrees with me, I'm guessing many on here will have their own opinions. I did hear Peter Beagrie talking about Swansea's great form briefly in response to an e-mail on You're On Sky Sports last week also saying "I'm quite sure Kenny Jackett won't be too displeased about going out of the cup at the 1st hurdle, they don't need any distractions this season" and I obviously share the same opinion, infact he and Steve Claridge seem to be the only ones that talk any sense on that programme!!

biggrin.gif


P.S. Its inevitable some people are gonna come back with the financial factor should we get a Premier$hite tie and thats fair enough in itself but the real money is getting into the Championship (which this side is DEFINITELY good enough to achieve). IF - and its a big if - what I am saying proves accurate that one potential pay-day could ruin our hopes of getting back into the 2nd tier and in my honest opinion this is the best chance we're likely to have to get back there in the near future as lets face it this division is a poor one this year, certainly poorer than when we were relegated from it. Also anyone who thinks Freddy will be here next season if we're still in League One is kidding themselves
rock.gif
 
I think this season took a turn for the worse when we got knocked out of the LDV. We have struggled ever since then, when a win would have put us back on course.

Having gone 14 years without the winning mentality, I'm extremely reluctant to let it go now. The last two LDVs were vital for building confidence and giving the players something to play for. A lot of people blamed the LDV for our failing to get automatic promotion, but I would credit it with helping us to get into that position in the first place.

In fact I think a FA Cup run is vital in order to keep this season alive. A defeat in the cup and we will soon slip into midtable obscurity amongst the Col******rs of this world.
 
I think it has more to do with the fixtures.

A Swansea side hitting their stride with a fit Trundle, Forest at Forest, and a difficult Port Vale side who'd already beaten us fairly convincingly at The Hall were a tough combination back to back.
 
Success breads success. We beat QPR in LDV two seasons ago which sparked a revival that kept us in the League. We beat Swindon in LDV last year which sparked a massive unbeaten run. We then go and lose to Wrexham which f%&ked up our season.
 
I agree with the idea that cup games can destroy league form but we won the game. That should keep the lads heads up and confidence high. If we had lost at Barnet you may be able to blame the cup. Not IMO if you win.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ Nov. 26 2005,22:47)]I said to Draft and statski before Barnet that I thought there was a possibility we could hit a wobble after Barnet for this reason and was laughed at, I only hope that come the New Year I'm not able to say "I told you so" cos believe me I don't want to.
You can say that all you want but i still think your talking a load of old tripe!

No seriously, while i agree with much of what you say about southend related matters (having introduced me to the shrimpers) i don't agree on this one.  While the FA Cup may have hindered the club in the past i don't think it is same in this instance.

Regardless of how we performed in the Barnet game (and we were not all that great) i don't think it would have made any difference in the Swansea game. They were simply better than us on the day. Trundle’s outstanding performance, Gutt's injury and Mayer being off the pitch for 10mins in the first half which lead to them getting on top of us and for the rest of the game is what cost us there. Losing against Swansea, probably leading to drop in confidence was the start of this poor run and nothing to do with the FA Cup.

In fact you never once mentioned the FA cup as a cause for losing the Swansea game as you know it was because they were simply better than us on the day. Your concern in the Forest game was that Tyson would give the rest of their side a lift. We subsequently lost and again you never mentioned the FA Cup as being a possible cause or distraction after that game.

We now lose to Port Vale and because on paper we should be beating this side you think the reason we didn't is because of the FA Cup. I just think this is a convenient excuse for you to bring up at this time. You’ve said to me that we’ve easily one of the best sides in the division and there’s no way we should have played 3 sh!te games in a row as we’re far too good for that.

While that may be the case, this is an open division where everyone can beat everyone and having just read Paul Merson comments I agree with him. He says he has yet to speak to two managers who have the same opinion about which side is the best in the division. We didn’t lose to Doncaster or Scunthorpe because of the FA Cup did we?  
rock.gif
  No, because everyone is going to lose games and we have just managed to lose 3 in a row.

I think that the poor run we are no seeing is a combination of a few things. Gutt’s injury being one, the opposition doing their homework and keeping Freddy quiet is another. Others on here also suggest our form was dropping before the Barnet game which is also a likely factor.

Are the players really going to be that distracted by the FA Cup? I just can’t see it; a home time against MK Dons is hardly a mouth-watering encounter that is going to distract the players in my opinion. Yes, getting through and possibly getting a big side in the third round could be a distraction but we’re not at that stage yet and I don’t believe the players could be thinking that far ahead. Their professionals and take one game at time and I’m sure that is what Tilly had been telling them.

In fact we need the FA Cup now to get us back on track. The thing the players want most after a poor run is to get back to winning ways as soon as possible and a home game against a poor MK Dons side is just what we need to get the confidence back. If we didn’t have this game the side would have to wait 2 weeks before playing again.

Anyway that essay is enough from me today, I’ve things to do………
 
The fact we won is more relevant to the theory that the cup is a mental distraction for the players, particularly with a supposedly easy 2nd Round tie to come. It'll be very interesting to see just how our season goes between the 2nd and 3rd rounds should we get through and nab a high-profile club in Round 3, personally I'll be quite happy to go out on Saturday as with our current form I think the cup WOULD indeed be an unwelcome distraction.

I guess everyone's view is differerent and I didn't expect everyone to agree, both me and my Uncle have seen it too many times with Southend United over the years though and subscribe to this view as does (as mentioned) certain pundits but it is a controversial topic. What I predicted could happen HAS happened in spectacular fashion, not necessarily the results but the performances which for me have been diabolical and once again like many times before it is a far too convenient time to have a big wobble for it not to be mentioned. We have an extremely good squad at this level that is EASILY good enough for the play-offs if not more - will we have a better chance to get out of this division in the near future? Will this league be as poor next year as it is this? The answer in both cases is almost certainly no
rock.gif
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ Nov. 27 2005,12:00)]We have an extremely good squad at this level that is EASILY good enough for the play-offs if not more - will we have a better chance to get out of this division in the near future? Will this league be as poor next year as it is this? The answer in both cases is almost certainly no
rock.gif
Really? I'd have thought getting beaten by average Doncaster, Scunthorpe, Port Vale and Forest sides might indicate that maybe our squad isn't as good as some people think it is.
rock.gif
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Draft Shrimper @ Nov. 27 2005,11:50)]While that may be the case, this is an open division where everyone can beat everyone and having just read Paul Merson comments I agree with him. He says he has yet to speak to two managers who have the same opinion about which side is the best in the division. We didn’t lose to Doncaster or Scunthorpe because of the FA Cup did we?  
rock.gif
  No, because everyone is going to lose games and we have just managed to lose 3 in a row.
I don't subscribe to Merson's view, anyone can beat anyone in ANY division on their day yes but in reality there is a big gap between the best sides in this particular division and those at the wrong end. This league is nowhere near as good as when we were relegated from it and during our 8-game winning run IMHO we only really played exceptionally well against Yeovil (2nd half) and Rotherham. I personally was surprised we were able to generate a club-record winning run whilst playing well but not fantastically and thats when I realised the standard of the 3rd tier wasn't what it was (this season in any case) and that we really should be able to push on and win promotion with the squad we have.

The sides we have played is irrelevant over the last 3 games really as it is the performances I am far more concerned with rather than the results. The players seem to have taken their eye off the ball, you don't mind if you lose to a better side if you've had a good go at them and played OK but the performances against all 3 sides (including Swansea who I believe we are every bit as good as) have been way way below par and there just seems to be something missing at the moment and I can't quite put my finger on what it is (and its not Guttridge, we have a more than able replacement for him in Benno). If the side loses but plays its normal game then there is no debate, the only way we'll know how much of a distraction the FA Cup is this season is if we get through on Saturday which I believe we will (we certainly SHOULD anyway).
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Whatever @ Nov. 27 2005,12:10)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ Nov. 27 2005,12:00)]We have an extremely good squad at this level that is EASILY good enough for the play-offs if not more - will we have a better chance to get out of this division in the near future? Will this league be as poor next year as it is this? The answer in both cases is almost certainly no
rock.gif
Really? I'd have thought getting beaten by average Doncaster, Scunthorpe, Port Vale and Forest sides might indicate that maybe our squad isn't as good as some people think it is.  
rock.gif
Ah but there's one of the points I'm trying to make though, in all 4 games mentioned (with the exception of Vale at home 2nd half where we were beaten by basic errors in the 1st) we were awful in all 4 games. Play as we did in those 4 and quite frankly we're gonna get beaten by anybody. No this side isn't good enough for the Championship and I think whoever goes up this year will need to strengthen significantly as the gap between the 2nd and 3rd tiers this season is bigger than it has been for a long time but in all honesty this is a fantastic chance to get out of this division and our task would be much harder next year. The way we're playing now is extremely frustrating in that a bit of conistency and performances somewhere close to what we know the squad is capable of and we'll have a fabulous chance of leaving League One at the 1st time of asking..
 
Persoanally we are just on a bad run, usually we seem to have our bad run after christmas, don't know why we just never seem to do much after the boxing day fixture.

Every team goes through good and bad runs, this is our bad patch, and personally if we really are looking to make the playoffs this season then i'm glad we are losing games now, rather than march/april.

as for ORM's cheeky Eastwood post, I could actually see Eastwood leaving if the club get a big enough bid.
If Tyson is worth £750,000 then Eastwood is easily worth £1M.
If someone bids £1M the club will NOT turn it down, no matter how much they keep going on about wanting to keep him.

But personally this season is still a dream world, we're 13 points clear of the relegation zone (where every 'expert' had us destined for all season) we're 3rd heading into Decemeber, and i'd hope we'd be in the playoffs going into 2006.
All in all 2005 has been one hell of a year for SUFC so far, lets hope it continues into our 100th year.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (* ORM * @ Nov. 27 2005,16:02)]Selling Eastwood in January will dramatically improve our promotion chances.

We'll be able to spend the 200K on a decent player.
wow.gif
Spot on ORM. 200,000 for a decent captain/defensive midfielder to play alongside Guttridge will improve the team dramatically.

That should then leave around 1.3 million for the new ground
 
seems to me we were an unknown quantity when we came up. teams didnt appear to know our strengths or where we are vulnarable. we need to learn new tricks and play a differant game sometimes
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Nov. 27 2005,18:06)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (* ORM * @ Nov. 27 2005,16:02)]Selling Eastwood in January will dramatically improve our promotion chances.

We'll be able to spend the 200K on a decent player.
wow.gif
Spot on ORM. 200,000 for a decent captain/defensive midfielder to play alongside Guttridge will improve the team dramatically.

That should then leave around 1.3 million for the new ground
wink.gif
 
Back
Top