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Coronavirus (Non-Politics)

londonblue

Topgun Pilot
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
14,675
So face masks must be worn in shops from the 24th. Is the virus going to get worse from the 23rd? But ok up till then? But no need in pubs, restaurants, and everywhere else! It makes no sense, if it was a problem why not make it compulsory from today?
You can always use the Dominic defence.
 

londonblue

Topgun Pilot
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
14,675
I had to go to A&E yesterday for a bout of uveitis. We had to have our temperature taken on arrival and then a mask was given to us when we went in the building. No issue from me at all. If it needs to be compulsory so it becomes normalised then that’s fine.
My wife had a minor operation a few weeks ago. She was tested a couple of days before hand (negative), had her temperature taken on entering the hospital and had to be masked whenever anyone entered her room. No issues, and no dramas...
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 20, 2004
Messages
1,149
Location
The Twilight Zone
Mate, honestly you should give those conspiracy theories a wide berth. They’re just utter nonsense created for exploitation and which can be easily debunked with a minimal amount of genuine research.
This is my last post on this subject but at the start of this madness I was the most anti-conspiracy theory person you could meet however in my work at what might be said to be near the pointy end of the "death industry" I have seen first hand that a lot of the "facts" and even more so the figures of "excess deaths" and the like that are being given out are often false and usually misleading. Why this should be, I don't know, but it is true nonetheless and a lot of the things that are happening but going unreported go against the official line.

Choose to disbelieve me if you wish, and you no doubt will, tell me just to shut up and wear a ****ing mask but that doesn't make the facts that I know any less true.
 

GBJ

The Font of all Knowledge
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
10,525
Location
Grays
This is my last post on this subject but at the start of this madness I was the most anti-conspiracy theory person you could meet however in my work at what might be said to be near the pointy end of the "death industry" I have seen first hand that a lot of the "facts" and even more so the figures of "excess deaths" and the like that are being given out are often false and usually misleading. Why this should be, I don't know, but it is true nonetheless and a lot of the things that are happening but going unreported go against the official line.

Choose to disbelieve me if you wish, and you no doubt will, tell me just to shut up and wear a ****ing mask but that doesn't make the facts that I know any less true.
Ok, so can you give me some clarity? I have no axe to grind with you, and if you’d be willing to explain your reasoning, then it may help me understand your stance.

What facts given out, have been false?

In what way are the excess deaths misleading?

What examples can you give of things happening that aren’t being reported?

I’m genuinely intrigued as to what you’re seeing, that the rest of us aren’t.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2004
Messages
1,149
Location
The Twilight Zone
Right, just a few things then I am shutting up.

At the start of this we were warned to expect massive excess deaths so new hospitals were created, "pop up mortuaries" appeared all over the place. There was one at Upminster Crematorium, there were others in Basildon, Chelmsford and other towns in Essex. This was replicated over the country. Crematoria were going to be overwhelmed and working round the clock. Mass burials were going to have to take place.

To date over the last 3 months I have been busy but no busier than I would normally be in a busy month, things have now got quiet, quieter than normal perhaps. Funeral directors have only been 5 to 10% busier than normal over this period and again, this has now gone quiet. No Funeral Director anywhere in this area has ever been anywhere near capacity and all the pop up morgues in Essex had the sum total of zero occupants. We are all being told to fear a second wave far deadlier than the first yet all the mortuaries have been or are being dismantled. Why if the death toll is due to rocket again?

That is some of what I have had first hand experience of, I have heard other very strange things from doctors and health professionals that don't add up either but that, as you might point out, is hearsay.

None of this equates with what the media et al are saying is happening. Why, I don't know, but the more I find out the less I am inclined to take at face value whatever I am told.

And I am not uniquely blessed in seeing this, a lot of people are, it's just not being reported.

But what do I know, eh?
 

GBJ

The Font of all Knowledge
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
10,525
Location
Grays
Right, just a few things then I am shutting up.

At the start of this we were warned to expect massive excess deaths so new hospitals were created, "pop up mortuaries" appeared all over the place. There was one at Upminster Crematorium, there were others in Basildon, Chelmsford and other towns in Essex. This was replicated over the country. Crematoria were going to be overwhelmed and working round the clock. Mass burials were going to have to take place.

To date over the last 3 months I have been busy but no busier than I would normally be in a busy month, things have now got quiet, quieter than normal perhaps. Funeral directors have only been 5 to 10% busier than normal over this period and again, this has now gone quiet. No Funeral Director anywhere in this area has ever been anywhere near capacity and all the pop up morgues in Essex had the sum total of zero occupants. We are all being told to fear a second wave far deadlier than the first yet all the mortuaries have been or are being dismantled. Why if the death toll is due to rocket again?

That is some of what I have had first hand experience of, I have heard other very strange things from doctors and health professionals that don't add up either but that, as you might point out, is hearsay.

None of this equates with what the media et al are saying is happening. Why, I don't know, but the more I find out the less I am inclined to take at face value whatever I am told.

And I am not uniquely blessed in seeing this, a lot of people are, it's just not being reported.

But what do I know, eh?
Respectfully, You claimed that facts had been given to us, which were false. Can you give me an example of this?

With regards to pop-up morgues and hospitals, I believe they were brought about, due to the unpredictable nature of the virus. Our best estimations on infections & deaths, were based on variables, so nobody could truly predict the figures with any credible accuracy.

I’d simply assume that the idea behind these pop-up infrastructures was that it was better to have them and not need them, rather than needing them and not having them.

Being warned to expect something, is not the same as being told that it will definitely happen either. And due to the field you’re in, I’m not particularly surprised that you were asked to expect the worst, but it doesn’t mean that the worst was guaranteed to happen.

Failing to prepare, is preparing to fail.

I have no idea why they’d dismantle the pop-up morgues, but the Nightingale hospitals will remain on stand-by, according to the BMJ’s article in May.

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1860

You said that excess deaths were misleading, and I can only assume that you’re basing that on how busy you’ve been at work? It’s anecdotal evidence, sure, but it doesn’t speak for the entirety of The U.K.

Luckily, enough people embraced the decision to be locked down, and followed the guidance appropriately, which ultimately helped reduce the number of infections, meaning less deaths.

The figures are hard to track down, but I found a report from June 28th claiming that up until that point, the death toll due to Covid in Essex, stood at 1300 people.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/essex-coronavirus-19-further-deaths-4272316.amp

Obviously I wouldn’t know, but would that amount of excess deaths overwhelm yourself and your industry? On the face of it, and to the inexperienced such as myself, 1300 excess deaths spread across the county, wouldn’t seem to be a figure that would have your industry groaning under the weight of it.

But does the fact that it’s only 1300 deaths, make the virus any less dangerous? Or does it mean that it’s mortality rate wasn’t as bad as first predicted? We’ve got posters on this very forum who have been affected by it first hand, and whilst they’ve (thankfully) survived, their accounts of having the virus should be enough to convince you that you wouldn’t fancy catching a dose of it.

I don’t want to sound condescending but in all honesty, it looks like the reality of the virus didn’t meet your expectations, which were born out of warnings of devastation. And as such you’re treating it as if it isn’t that big of a deal.

And I dare say - and please, correct me if I’m wrong - that you’ve gone down a conspiratorial rabbit hole, which on the face of it seems to make more sense than what you’ve been told by our so-called leaders? And I say that, because you use the same terminology that other conspiracists use.

I know a bit about conspiracy theories. I know how powerful they can be, and what damage they can do. They can take the most logical thinking person, and destroy their thought process completely.

When it comes to governments, I’m as sceptical as the next person. I don’t pay attention to anything they say to tell you the truth. I wouldn’t risk my health on their say so. But neither would I risk my health on the basis of what some crank on YouTube or Twitter says. Especially one that is trying to profit from his/her videos.

This virus is real. That’s a undisputed fact. The true numbers and long-lasting effects of it won’t be ascertained or revealed for many years yet. The people in charge of leading us through this are morons, who can’t be trusted. But that isn’t grounds for dismissing this virus. There are several stories of people who didn’t take it seriously, and they learned the hard way.
 

Chrisb

Forever Blue
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
1,262
Location
Rayleigh
My observations over the last week or so are that many more older people are now venturing out to the shops but sadly don't seem to be very careful with social distancing etc. Not meaning to be critical but I think those of us who have shopped (albeit once a week) throughout the lockdown are more used to how things work in the supermarkets with regard to queues etc. but many of those now going out after a long period at home seem oblivious to the changes in place and sadly are those most at risk.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
5,031
My observations over the last week or so are that many more older people are now venturing out to the shops but sadly don't seem to be very careful with social distancing etc. Not meaning to be critical but I think those of us who have shopped (albeit once a week) throughout the lockdown are more used to how things work in the supermarkets with regard to queues etc. but many of those now going out after a long period at home seem oblivious to the changes in place and sadly are those most at risk.
I guess we're all have to wait to this time next year, to discover whether the possibility of the predictions of the estimated future fatalities, will be factual?.
Until then come winter time, when a probable Flu epidemic also rears it's head, how will people know whether they've got flu or the virus?.
 

Tangled up in Blue

Certified Senior Citizen
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
28,905
Location
Sant Cugat del Vallès
Maybe I've missed the detail on this but I thought it was now compulsory to wear masks on public transport, shops, hospitals, Dentists, Doctors Surgeries and last but not least hair dressers. Mask wearing in conjunction with social distancing and hand washing/Sanitising gives us a half decent chance of reducing the risk of spreading the virus, all underpinned by an effective track and Trace system. I have yet to hear that mask wearing is compulsory whilst walking in the fresh air. Obviously there will be occasions when folk are closer together than recommended outside, and then mask wearing may help. This will be an inconvenience for some but if it helps save lives then those folk will just have to suck it up.

It has been in Catalunya since last week (and in most of Spain now too) but not in France (even from August 2nd).While I have no problems wearing a face mask on public transport or indeed in any enclosed space.It's really not necessary in the open-air.Any benefits are marginal (though positive).
 
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