Coronavirus (Non-Politics)

[dloman]

i would imagine staff now have an idea of rough percentages of no-shows each day and could plan accordingly. If you know there around 50 doses left on average each day invite 30-40 off reserve list to arrive at the end of the day and if anything is then left over use on others.

 

[blueblueblue]

This was at mid-day.

The Pfizer has a really short shelf life and comes in big batches, my understanding, after it's removed from it's (-70)? home, it becomes redundant after a few hours.

TINKS might be about to answer that, but that's my understanding.

 

[southendkid]

The pfizer vaccine only has a limited shelf life. I'd rather it used on someone than end up in a bin. Working in healthcare myself the amount of people that don't turn up to appointments is amazing. I would imagine its been the same for the vaccine appointments. So not surprising they have some left over.

Why not overbook if people aren't showing up? It's what airlines do and whilst occasionally it means some disgruntled people get told they'll have to take the next flight instead it means people don't end up being unable to book themselves on a flight that ends up having plenty of room because of no-shows.

If 10% of people aren't showing up then book 55 people in for a time slot that can do 50, if it turns out that all 55 people did show up then push the other 5 back as priority for the next timeslot. You'd need to tell people booking in the final timeslot that there's a risk they'll be told at the last minute they now can't be slotted in until tomorrow but it would stop the majority of the waste from happening.

 

[dloman]

The Pfizer has a really short shelf life and comes in big batches, my understanding, after it's removed from it's (-70)? home, it becomes redundant after a few hours.

TINKS might be about to answer that, but that's my understanding.

Believe after the -70 part it can be store at fridge level for up to 5 days though would guess they would try and use it quicker than that.

 

[blueblueblue]

Well we have anecdotal evidence on here regarding the healthy aged people for starters. I have no issue with stock being used up if and its a big if , other avenues haven't been explored first. Also in regards to 70 and 80's not driving and having to arrange transport etc, you may be surprised at how many do drive and are very available at short notice compared to younger people of which a fair number would be working.

You mean, someone saying they're young people? That's not evidence that they don't have health problems at all. I think you're going off on one, everyone at the end of the day needs to be vaccinated.

 

[dloman]

Why not overbook if people aren't showing up? It's what airlines do and whilst occasionally it means some disgruntled people get told they'll have to take the next flight instead it means people don't end up being unable to book themselves on a flight that ends up having plenty of room because of no-shows.

If 10% of people aren't showing up then book 55 people in for a time slot that can do 50, if it turns out that all 55 people did show up then push the other 5 back as priority for the next timeslot. You'd need to tell people booking in the final timeslot that there's a risk they'll be told at the last minute they now can't be slotted in until tomorrow but it would stop the majority of the waste from happening.

Exactly, it really isn't that hard.

 

[londonblue]

Why not overbook if people aren't showing up? It's what airlines do and whilst occasionally it means some disgruntled people get told they'll have to take the next flight instead it means people don't end up being unable to book themselves on a flight that ends up having plenty of room because of no-shows.

If 10% of people aren't showing up then book 55 people in for a time slot that can do 50, if it turns out that all 55 people did show up then push the other 5 back as priority for the next timeslot. You'd need to tell people booking in the final timeslot that there's a risk they'll be told at the last minute they now can't be slotted in until tomorrow but it would stop the majority of the waste from happening.

That'll go down well. I understand the intention, and it is good, but I think the law of unintended consequences would loom large...

 

[blueblueblue]

Why not overbook if people aren't showing up? It's what airlines do and whilst occasionally it means some disgruntled people get told they'll have to take the next flight instead it means people don't end up being unable to book themselves on a flight that ends up having plenty of room because of no-shows.

If 10% of people aren't showing up then book 55 people in for a time slot that can do 50, if it turns out that all 55 people did show up then push the other 5 back as priority for the next timeslot. You'd need to tell people booking in the final timeslot that there's a risk they'll be told at the last minute they now can't be slotted in until tomorrow but it would stop the majority of the waste from happening.

Really? You're compering a nationalwide Covid vaccination programme for nearly 70 million people to a cancelled airline flight of 300? You can't be serious.

 

[southendkid]

Really? You're compering a nationalwide Covid vaccination programme for nearly 70 million people to a cancelled airline flight of 300? You can't be serious.

Well of course it sounds stupid if you compare those numbers because the numbers you've used are on completely different scales. Why are you comparing a single flight to national distribution over the space of several months? We aren't distributing 70 million vaccines out of a single building, each site is only able to do a few hundred a day. You should be comparing a single flight to a single building on a day.

Also many GPs already overbook to account for no-shows (which is why sometimes you end up being seen half an hour after you were supposed to, if there are less no-shows than expected everyone gets pushed back). If comparing it to what airlines do feels stupid to you then compare it to what doctors already do for appointments instead, it's still the exact same concept.

Personally I'd rather a few people grumble about getting the vaccine an hour later than they booked instead of expensive vaccines being chucked in the bin because people couldn't be bothered to show up.

 

[blueblueblue]

Well of course it sounds stupid if you compare those numbers because the numbers you've used are on completely different scales. Why are you comparing a single flight to national distribution over the space of several months? We aren't distributing 70 million vaccines out of a single building, each site is only able to do a few hundred a day. You should be comparing a single flight to a single building on a day.

Also many GPs already overbook to account for no-shows (which is why sometimes you end up being seen half an hour after you were supposed to, if there are less no-shows than expected everyone gets pushed back). If comparing it to what airlines do feels stupid to you then compare it to what doctors already do for appointments instead, it's still the exact same concept.

Why can't you just be happy for that person who's had a jab? Why make it a big thing, afterall, in 2 or 3 weeks time, it's one less person who can pass it onto you.

 

[dloman]

Why can't you just be happy for that person who's had a jab? Why make it a big thing, afterall, in 2 or 3 weeks time, it's one less person who can pass it onto you.

I don't think that is the issue and it is an emotive one at that. I think it is because with possibly better organisation maybe someone who really needs it could have got it earlier and you never know but that could be one less death statistic. Fact is nearly everybody will have the vaccine at some point but the idea was to protect the most at risk first and if that can be done by making adjustments in regards to how no-shows and left over jabs are used, then surely that is better all round, don't you think?

 

[southendkid]

Why can't you just be happy for that person who's had a jab? Why make it a big thing, afterall, in 2 or 3 weeks time, it's one less person who can pass it onto you.

When did I say I'm not happy for them? If the vaccine was going to waste then by all means
give it to them.

The reason I want them to start overbooking is so that those vaccines are no longer going to waste, it's great it didn't go to waste complete but that vaccine would have done much more good going to a vulnerable person. It's only gone to a healthy person because there weren't any vulnerable people around to take it. There's a reason we're distributing the vaccine based on how at risk someone is rather than just giving it out via lucky dip. By overbooking we can book all of the vulnerable up into a much shorter space of time and once that happens hospitals will be in a much better position to care for those that do become critically ill.

 

[blueblueblue]

I don't think that is the issue and it is an emotive one at that. I think it is because with possibly better organisation maybe someone who really needs it could have got it earlier and you never know but that could be one less death statistic. Fact is nearly everybody will have the vaccine at some point but the idea was to protect the most at risk first and if that can be done by making adjustments in regards to how no-shows and left over jabs are used, then surely that is better all round, don't you think?

No I don't, I think you need to get a life and be happy for those who have (by chance) got a jab, it's called humanity and good luck to them. You're obviously concerned about the whole process, why don't you volunteer, you might make a difference instead of moaning.

 

[dloman]

No I don't, I think you need to get a life and be happy for those who have (by chance) got a jab, it's called humanity and good luck to them. You're obviously concerned about the whole process, why don't you volunteer, you might make a difference instead of moaning.

So you don't think it is better to ensure the at risk are vaccinated first? It seems you have a guilt complex about this and really not sure why you don't feel this should happen. Also how do you know I am not volunteering and am just frustrated about the way this happening? Think I will leave this there as it says more about you and your views.

 

[blueblueblue]

So you don't think it is better to ensure the at risk are vaccinated first? It seems you have a guilt complex about this and really not sure why you don't feel this should happen. Also how do you know I am not volunteering and am just frustrated about the way this happening? Think I will leave this there as it says more about you and your views.

Indeed. Just be happy for those who have been vaccinated, even if it goes againts your views and age eg.

 

[pottster]

Why not overbook if people aren't showing up? It's what airlines do and whilst occasionally it means some disgruntled people get told they'll have to take the next flight instead it means people don't end up being unable to book themselves on a flight that ends up having plenty of room because of no-shows.

If 10% of people aren't showing up then book 55 people in for a time slot that can do 50, if it turns out that all 55 people did show up then push the other 5 back as priority for the next timeslot. You'd need to tell people booking in the final timeslot that there's a risk they'll be told at the last minute they now can't be slotted in until tomorrow but it would stop the majority of the waste from happening.

Here's an idea, if people are booked for a vaccination how about they just turn up for it. Would save alot of hassle. Instead of trying to make allowances for people who cant keep an appointment for something that's in their own interest. Over booking patients to only tell them they cant have the vaccination due to over booking just leads to staff being verbally abused.

 

[Benfleet A1]

I don't believe it's selfish at all, if they have left over vaccines that will have to be thrown away, then good luck to them.

Then as has already been said, there should be a standby list.

 

[blueblueblue]

The angry "this person is getting vaccinated before me" has begun.

 

[southendkid]

Here's an idea, if people are booked for a vaccination how about they just turn up for it.

That's not an idea though, it's just acknowledging that some people are selfish. It'd be like saying if people stop committing crimes then our police force wouldn't be underfunded, it might be true but there's no way of actually stopping people from doing it. People committing crimes already know they're being selfish, pointing it out to them won't make them stop. You have to account for selfishness when you're rolling out something like this.

I agree people getting verbally abused is a risk but that's why I'd want to make clear to people booking at the end of the day that there's a risk they won't be seen. Maybe you could open it up to all groups at the very end of the day so that you don't end up with at risk groups missing out, if we're only giving out leftovers at the very end of the day rather than all the way through it we'll still get through the at risk list faster.

 

[Benfleet A1]

The angry "this person is getting vaccinated before me" has begun.

You're becoming a bore mate. There is a tier system in place not a free for all. I'm in tier 6 and has to wait my turn like everyone else. Do you stand in a queue or push to the front? Same principle, your going to get the hump if that happens too often in front of you.

So tell me, have you had your jab yet or are you happy for everyone to push you further to the back of the queue?