Coronavirus (Non-Politics)

[Chalky]

Manchester were holding out for more money, and wanted something closer to what Liverpool and Lancashire were getting.

Manchester were being offered £22m for 2.8m people.

Liverpool & Lancashire got £44m & £42m for 1.5m people each.



Again, lockdown wasn’t the issue. The exit strategy was. I really don’t see why that’s so hard to grasp when the facts and evidence are there for all to see ??‍

Until there is competent & concise plan for what comes after lockdown, we will absolutely keep making the same mistakes again and again.

But this is the point though. It's just so much expectation on a whole nation filled with unfortunatley, some idiots that will not oblige.

I also think it's too late now, people are at the end of their tether with it all. Humans are literally designed to socially interact, it's been 7 months, 795,000 unemployed, excess deaths from cancelled NHS check ups, destroyed mental health. Life is meant to be worth living, sure, lockdown delayed transmission a little bit, but failed emphatically in other sectors. No way, you could ever do it again, people just won't conform to it.

 

[GBJ]

Again, I’m a layman, but these graphs don’t particularly make the Swedish model look tip top;

 

[GBJ]

But this is the point though. It's just so much expectation on a whole nation filled with unfortunatley, some idiots that will not oblige.

I also think it's too late now, people are at the end of their tether with it all. Humans are literally designed to socially interact, it's been 7 months, 795,000 unemployed, excess deaths from cancelled NHS check ups, destroyed mental health. Life is meant to be worth living, sure, lockdown delayed transmission a little bit, but failed emphatically in other sectors. No way, you could ever do it again, people just won't conform to it.

I’ll say it again, the issue wasn’t the lockdown. Lockdown worked. It’s proven that it worked.

The issue is/was the sheer lack of an exit strategy.

It was everything that came after lockdown that lead us to where we are now. Confusing and contradictory guidelines, several high profile people flouting rules, political gamesmanship & a track and trace system that is only fit for the bin.

Literally, from June onwards, all that effort that we put in has gone straight down the swanny, and that is the mistake we need to learn from.

These are the reasons we’re back in this situation mate, and they’re also the reason why people - as you rightly said - have reached the end of their tether with it all.

It genuinely has been the blind leading the blind, and of course it’s us sad saps who have to cop the brunt of it.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Repeat, and repeat.

Wash hands, wash hands.

Wear a mask, nr any strangers, anywhere, most definitely inside structures.

Keep a distance, 1 mtr good, 2 metre better, if more space is available use it.

Do touch surfaces or objects unnecessarily, sanitise to nth degree.

Be alert.

Consider the vulnerable, it is possible to be a help, a friend and safe for them.

Don't be an arse and be an unnecessary burden on a stretched NHS..


If these simple " rules" were followed this virus would be under much better control.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

Repeat, and repeat.

Wash hands, wash hands.

Wear a mask, nr any strangers, anywhere, most definitely inside structures.

Keep a distance, 1 mtr good, 2 metre better, if more space is available use it.

Do touch surfaces or objects unnecessarily, sanitise to nth degree.

Be alert.

Consider the vulnerable, it is possible to be a help, a friend and safe for them.

Don't be an arse and be an unnecessary burden on a stretched NHS..


If these simple " rules" were followed this virus would be under much better control.

In my experience, 99% of people have been obeying their orders, and people are still catching it. People talk about "controlling" the virus like it's easy. It's not just going to go away. Cases have gone up since masks were made mandatory, and recent research has suggested you can't catch enough of the virus from surfaces to make you ill, so two of those 'rules' have questionable impact.

 

[GBJ]

Cases have gone up since masks were made mandatory

Do you think the two things are mutually exclusive?

Could there not be other factors as to why cases have risen, or do you genuinely think the mandating of masks have caused the rise?

 

[RHB]

The appears to be a consensus amongst politicians, both national and local and most scientists that contact within households is the the largest cause of the rising spread of the virus. This would explain why restrictions are in force in that area. As to mask wearing, the WHO, all of western Europe and all major nations worldwide are all advocating the wearing of face coverings, some even insist on them being worn in the streets.

 

[Holy Joe]

Sweden is no model to follow, they're getting a second wave, unemployment has jumped the same amount. and deaths are much higher compared to their Nordic neighbours





Deaths and cases are adjusted to take into account different population sizes

 

[Holy Joe]

In my experience, 99% of people have been obeying their orders,

You haven't been on public transport! Whilst I haven't been to a pub in the evening for a while, photos in the press would suggest social distancing is not always being maintained

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

You haven't been on public transport! Whilst I haven't been to a pub in the evening for a while, photos in the press would suggest social distancing is not always being maintained

Agreed, I don’t see much distancing in pubs, restaurants and supermarkets. In my street people have had relatives and friends coming round for months, carrying on as if they are immune to Covid or just not caring. The initial lockdown was successful as it was a very clear message and people were scared ****less. Now nobody can seem to agree on how we get out of this as a country. The travel industry is dying on its’ arse along with hospitality, retail and other sectors.

Personally I haven’t flouted the rules but I can understand the frustration after 7 months of restrictions, when jobs are being cut, mental health issues are rocketing and the economy is going to the wall. They really need to sort out track & trace.

 

[Holy Joe]

To view how poorly UK has done. 2020 excess deaths as % of population is around 0.08%, Germany is less than 0.01% and US is a touch higher than UK at around 0.09%

 

[kaymac]

The Germans have a different method of determining figures to the UK hence why they‘re apparently much lower.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The Germans have a different method of determining figures to the UK hence why they‘re apparently much lower.

It could be that their excellent test,track and trace system (mandatory at airports) is also a factor.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Again, I’m a layman, but these graphs don’t particularly make the Swedish model look tip top;

View attachment 13084

View attachment 13085

View attachment 13086

Saw an ONS graph for excess deaths (since March until October) on the Politics live show yeterday which confirmed that Sweden is no example to follow.

 

[londonblue]

The Germans have a different method of determining figures to the UK hence why they‘re apparently much lower.

I think MattE has taken that into account by using total deaths minus the average for the last 8 years. The number left will be the ones that are almost certainly covid related. It removes the issue of different countries using different methods to derive the cause of death.

No country can count their total number of deaths differently.

 

[Holy Joe]

I think MattE has taken that into account by using total deaths minus the average for the last 8 years. The number left will be the ones that are almost certainly covid related. It removes the issue of different countries using different methods to derive the cause of death.

No country can count their total number of deaths differently.

Yes - indeed - these are total deaths from any cause with Covid the likely difference between 2020 and the average since 2012. Germans have had had barely any excess deaths, and as another poster has indicated, one of the major reasons why is the German track and trace model. The cause of the bad UK numbers is put down to entering lockdown too late, too long a lockdown, not restricting travel and a very poor track and trace system

 

[Holy Joe]

Yes - indeed - these are total deaths from any cause with Covid the likely difference between 2020 and the average since 2012. Germans have had had barely any excess deaths, and as another poster has indicated, one of the major reasons why is the German track and trace model. The cause of the bad UK numbers is put down to entering lockdown too late, too long a lockdown, not restricting travel and a very poor track and trace system

It also blows away the myth that Covid deaths are mainly of people who are ill anyway and would die in a few months of their undelying illness - if that were the case then the cumulative excess deaths would be falling by now

 

[kaymac]

It could be that their excellent test,track and trace system (mandatory at airports) is also a factor.

Sorry, but no. Actually, it’s how they have been designating what
is and / or is not deemed as a ‘Covid related’ death. They use a totally different system to the the rest of Europe....

 

[Holy Joe]

Sorry, but no. Actually, it’s how they have been designating what
is and / or is not deemed as a ‘Covid related’ death. They use a totally different system to the the rest of Europe....

Nope those numbers above are excess deaths - not covid deaths

 

[kaymac]

Do a bit of research,...