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Court Winding Up Petition 28th October 2020

Depends what assets Southend United have. If they don't own RH or the training ground. They wont own any fixtures or fittings......I dare say the big lads fork is hired from Martin Dawn gardening services
Agree, I was just pointing out that the taxman comes before everyone else and is kept whole
 
What really annoys me with this constant none payment of TAX (every year), us supporters pay our tax through our earnings which goes towards our hospitals, elderly, homeless eg, ie people who need a helping hand when they hit hard times, which could happen to anyone of us in our life. What the club keep doing just isn't right.

If this was an individual who kept doing this, they'd be serving time at Her Majesty's pleasure.
as a side your employer pays the ni and tax so unlikely an individual would be prosecuted, this is exactly the situation here I believe. But you may have a point if individuals were responsible for doing it Themselves
 
Agree, I was just pointing out that the taxman comes before everyone else and is kept whole


Not actually correct.

I think it was the Enterprise Act that became law around 2000 that removed the then Inland Revenue and Customs and Excise from being able to have their claims or at least part of their claim treated as preferential they like other creditors are treated as non preferential
There is a departure from that rule if includes say secured debts, in paid wages but by and large the only creditors that get any sort of preference are Football creditors and that issue has been challenged by HMRC and whilst that challenge failed the view is that at some point in time legislation will be passed to close that loop hole.
From memory just about everything that Southend FC own is covered by way of debenture or fixed or floating charge.
There would be value , I guess, in the stadium lease and of course some of the players contracts but I am way out of my depth when it comes down to assessing their value or worth.
Irrespective of all that this is potentially very dangerous territory. That is if the terms of the last adjournment haven’t been adhered to. Insolvency would see vast sums written off to both HMRC but far more relevant is the vast debt owed to Ron
If HMRC haven’t agreed to a further adjournment then you are in the hands of the judge. That judge will be mindful of the fact that the bulk of any PAYE debt will be made up of sums deducted from the wages and any VAT element is again sums paid over to Southend by customers and not again Southend’s money.
 
The accounts for 2019 should have been filed by July and still haven't been, which prompts the question what more horrors are to be revealed in due course. If there was no problem or nothing to hide, surely they would have been filed by now.
 
as a side your employer pays the ni and tax so unlikely an individual would be prosecuted, this is exactly the situation here I believe. But you may have a point if individuals were responsible for doing it Themselves

The employer is required to deduct and pay over nic. Officers and or employees of the company that fail to ensure payments have all sorts of responsibilities and whilst I am not up to date with the regulation HMRC can go after negligent employees and of course directors can be barred from being from being directors of other limited companies
 
Not actually correct.

I think it was the Enterprise Act that became law around 2000 that removed the then Inland Revenue and Customs and Excise from being able to have their claims or at least part of their claim treated as preferential they like other creditors are treated as non preferential
There is a departure from that rule if includes say secured debts, in paid wages but by and large the only creditors that get any sort of preference are Football creditors and that issue has been challenged by HMRC and whilst that challenge failed the view is that at some point in time legislation will be passed to close that loop hole.
From memory just about everything that Southend FC own is covered by way of debenture or fixed or floating charge.
There would be value , I guess, in the stadium lease and of course some of the players contracts but I am way out of my depth when it comes down to assessing their value or worth.
Irrespective of all that this is potentially very dangerous territory. That is if the terms of the last adjournment haven’t been adhered to. Insolvency would see vast sums written off to both HMRC but far more relevant is the vast debt owed to Ron
If HMRC haven’t agreed to a further adjournment then you are in the hands of the judge. That judge will be mindful of the fact that the bulk of any PAYE debt will be made up of sums deducted from the wages and any VAT element is again sums paid over to Southend by customers and not again Southend’s money.
The law was amended last year so that they are now 'slightly' preferential creditors. Anyone with a registered charge comes first then HMRC then everyone else. Dont know enough about liquidation of football clubs to know where football creditors stand legallly although club can be thrown out of league for non payment of football creditors.
 
Robbing Peter to pay Paul is usually never a good idea where the tax man is concerned. (Eventually Peter comes up a bit short and you can't afford to pay Peter all you owe), which rather seems to be where we are with HMRC,atm,I'm sure the Chairman is capable of cutting a deal with HMRC to pay some but not all of what SUFC owe.That will inevitably still leave us under an embargo and unable to bring in even the loan players we so desperately need at the present time.Without them we're likely to continue to struggle at the foot of L2.It's certainly a depressing time to be a Shrimper.Bury and Macclesfield were dealt harshly with by HMRC last season.Who's to say SUFC won't be next?
 
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Robbing Peter to pay Paul is usually never a good idea where the tax man is concerned. (Eventually Peter comes up a bit short and you can't afford to pay Peter all you owe), which rather seems to be where we are with HMRC,atm,I'm sure the Chairman is capable of cutting a deal with HMRC to pay some but not all of what SUFC owe.That will inevitably still leave us under an embargo and unable to bring in even the loan players we so desperately need at the present time.Without them we're likely to continue to struggle at the foot of L2.It's certainly a depressing time to be a Shrimper.

If we keep signing players we wont be able to pay Peter, Paul or the tax man. We have to get on with what we have. We were in big trouble before Covid because we were on our 4th manger in about 20 games and had paid way over the top for the Sol Crew.

Then we had to pay off Cox Kiernan and Ridgewell as they were expensive rotten apples in the barrel.

Lifting the embargo wont really matter now until Christmas to So i guess Ron won't feel the need pay the full amount.....There are plenty of people and local businesses who have been waiting longer than the Tax man.....They should get priority, even more so because of Covid.
 
Im sure Ron will still pay the full amount as he assured us he would, he met with the protesters and assured them , he met with the Trust, he went on BBC Essex and assured the Community the debt would be paid in full this time and the embargo lifted ,and the club wouldnt pay as he would do it from the cash rich Holding Company. Surely Ron would not lie to all of us to that extent, that would be unforgiveable
 
1.If we keep signing players we wont be able to pay Peter, Paul or the tax man. We have to get on with what we have. We were in big trouble before Covid because we were on our 4th manger in about 20 games and had paid way over the top for the Sol Crew.

Then we had to pay off Cox Kiernan and Ridgewell as they were expensive rotten apples in the barrel.

2.Lifting the embargo wont really matter now until Christmas to So i guess Ron won't feel the need pay the full amount.....There are plenty of people and local businesses who have been waiting longer than the Tax man.....They should get priority, even more so because of Covid.

1.If we're still under an embargo after tomorrow (highly likely I'd've thought) we won't be able to sign any new players even on loan.

2.Seeing how we do under an embargo until Xmas has been tried before (as recently as last year IIRC) with disastrous consequences.






While I'd agree that "local businesses" should be first in the queue for payment I can't see that regularly keeping HMRC waiting for their tax take is any way to run a successful football club.
 
1.If we're still under an embargo after tomorrow (highly likely I'd've thought) we won't be able to sign any new players even on loan.

2.Seeing how we do under an embargo until Xmas has been tried before (as recently as last year IIRC) with disasterous consequences.

While I'd agree that "local businesses" should be first in the queue for payment I can't see that regularly keeping HMRC waiting for their tax take is any way to run a successful football club.

1.We already have enough on loan.

2. Had Ron let Sol sign the much mentioned 6 players we would be in a worse position than now. Sol would never have saved us and Ron must have known about his off field interests with certain people.

3. Apart from the likes of the top 6, football is not a successful business....In fact is its a disaster......Which is why many of Britain's most successful businessmen like Sugar Hearn and Paphitis have all got out whilst they can....Until wages are properly capped it will always be that way.
 
My bet is that Ron will not only settle the debt in full but he will slip a couple of fifties into the judges breast pocket, give it a little pat and tell them to 'have a drink on me'.
I think he's far more likely to offer him a bottle of flat champagne that's well past it's best before date.
 
The law was amended last year so that they are now 'slightly' preferential creditors. Anyone with a registered charge comes first then HMRC then everyone else. Dont know enough about liquidation of football clubs to know where football creditors stand legallly although club can be thrown out of league for non payment of football creditors.
I don’t think that change has taken effect yet
 
I'm told Dagenham have informed their players they will be going part time. Complete with training in the evening. Not the best of times to find a full time job so players will look to jump ship but of course how long before everyone is doing that.

L1 and L2 will end up with no choice but to accept the conditions which come with a PL bail out.
 
I’ll be honest I’m not too sure of the process, but I’m assuming that if we were wound up tomorrow, then tonight’s game against Oldham would be our last ever game?
 
If both nos 5 & 7 survive the appearance before Judge Briggs, perhaps Ron might care to avail himself of the services of no7. Always the optimist !! We could do with some new hope.
 
I’ll be honest I’m not too sure of the process, but I’m assuming that if we were wound up tomorrow, then tonight’s game against Oldham would be our last ever game?

Isn't there a period for buyers to come forward?

So, could still play a few?
 
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