Post-Match Thread and Ratings Dagenham & Redbridge 2-0 Southend United - The Buildbase FA Trophy

[stewart]

I think management really need to take a good lookat the academy now ,and ask questions of it, Why we have so few now coming through and being up to playing first team football,in fact i think they probably have thats why so many now being sent out on loan ,Question do you supporters believe we should reduce the size of the academy, maybe just keep our u23s and u18s and u16s,filling those teams with young signings either poached from other clubs or released from other clubs or better stilltalent spotted by our scouts etc.Im a bit disappointed in our given chances these lads not taking them and most ppl here saying they a bit lightweight and easily knocked off the ball, do we have a strength and conditioning coach . Just genuine questions okay.

 

[danbowen]

I think management really need to take a good lookat the academy now ,and ask questions of it, Why we have so few now coming through and being up to playing first team football,in fact i think they probably have thats why so many now being sent out on loan ,Question do you supporters believe we should reduce the size of the academy, maybe just keep our u23s and u18s and u16s,filling those teams with young signings either poached from other clubs or released from other clubs or better stilltalent spotted by our scouts etc.Im a bit disappointed in our given chances these lads not taking them and most ppl here saying they a bit lightweight and easily knocked off the ball, do we have a strength and conditioning coach . Just genuine questions okay.

Absolutely agree with the academy. Would cut costs and as I’ve said earlier our academy are miles behind teams like Sheffield United etc only have to look at the loan signings we have and how much better they are than almost, if not all, of the players who have come through our academy. I like the idea of a Brentford style academy Rather than having a team represent us at 6 or 7 years old etc.

 

[stewart]

Absolutely agree with the academy. Would cut costs and as I’ve said earlier our academy are miles behind teams like Sheffield United etc only have to look at the loan signings we have and how much better they are than almost, if not all, of the players who have come through our academy. I like the idea of a Brentford style academy Rather than having a team represent us at 6 or 7 years old etc.

Yes let the younger lads play in a southend youth league like we had back in the 60s etc , i dont know if that still exists .,They can get good coaching with the help of SUFC in the way of teaching those coaches,and then when the kids reach the age of 15 ,the best of them can progress if good enough to our academy u16s.

 

[Shrimpet steve]

So what! Glad we are out! Didn't need this game ! Looking forward to smashing kings Lynn next friday

 

[* ORM *]

H

I believe the young lad who lobbed the sarney has been arrested and charged with hampering the police.

He should have used his loaf.

As for the game it’s a meh from me. We have a much bigger battle on our hands, Much as the first LDV final was fantastic I don’t think anyone at the time was as concerned about the state of the club and the current relegation battle as we are now. (Though it was not a period I’d want to relive apart from the day out for the final).

So much so that the 11pm start I’d ordinarily listen into but I was safely tucked up after a nice bottle of Shiraz. Day 16 of 21 for hotel quarantine for me. At least I have a suite (for half the price I paid for a smaller room last year) and opening windows (unusual for a hotel in HK). So much as a toenail out of my door and it is a criminal offence and yes they do check and yes they do prosecute.

 

[bluesfansince1952]

The academy has some value as far as our ties with the community are concerned. The fact that kids from seven years of age and upwards (or whatever the age is) living in Southend can play for the local club is a good thing as it strengthens our community links as well as perhaps attracting supporters ie parents relatives and friends of the players involved. Above all it reminds a segment of the local population that we exist as well possibly offering a pathway to talented players. The effect of this might be easy to underestimate.
Producing players ready and able to play either National League or in the lower divisions of the EFL is another issue.
On the evidence of the last two to three seasons it seems patently obvious that most of our academy players and/or recent graduates are out of the depth when playing for the first team. Some have played the odd good game and none have performed well on a consistent basis.
Were the potential and quality of these players oversold by RD to RM leading RM to believe we could avoid relegation by playing academy players?
From what I have read on here there is a suggestion that MM was undermined by RD for his reluctance to play the younger brigade.
If that was the case MM's judgement seems to have been on the money, as far as this issue is concerned at least
I did not watch yesterday's game but listened to some of it .From reading the comments on here our performance was very typical of those we regularly put in during the last two seasons. Good in patches but not consistent enough, and, in the end, well beaten by the opposition.
There will have to be a clear out at the end of the season, and, not just of some of the 'old crocks' signed by PB.
Our recent 'revival' is heavily reliant on the talented loan players we have managed to bring in. Without them we still look potential relegation fare I fear.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

I've coached kids teams in the Southend area for many years and whenever my players have gone onto professional teams, Southend have always offered the worst experience. Many top players have gone to the wayside and some have even gave up playing all together. The best feedabck I had was regarding Col U (damn !) who were first class. With that sort if reputation, i'm sure we're losing out on the best local talent.

 

[Holy Joe]

I think management really need to take a good lookat the academy now ,and ask questions of it, Why we have so few now coming through and being up to playing first team football,in fact i think they probably have thats why so many now being sent out on loan ,Question do you supporters believe we should reduce the size of the academy, maybe just keep our u23s and u18s and u16s,filling those teams with young signings either poached from other clubs or released from other clubs or better stilltalent spotted by our scouts etc.Im a bit disappointed in our given chances these lads not taking them and most ppl here saying they a bit lightweight and easily knocked off the ball, do we have a strength and conditioning coach . Just genuine questions okay.

You have to take into account the best talent has been sold, sometimes before making a first team appearance, and some with just a handful.

Squad sizes/mathematics will tell you, you only need/want a couple per season to 'make it'

 

[fbm]

I'm actually very disappointed in KM to be honest. Does he think he's some kind of Alex Fergeson not playing his strongest side!!! 850 fans attended today and he probably knew they wouldn't win. The away and home support this season I didn't expect considering where we are, this cup (though I have no interest in) could have been a thank you to the fans to try and take us nearer to the final.....

I'm bloody angry for the fans who spend hard earned money.

I think he played the strongest side he could. The only question mark would possibly be Lopata over Kensdale or Hobson, but as KM said post match, neither Lopata nor Clifford have trained since Tuesday and they needed to protect them a bit, Murphy's injured, Neal cup tied... As others have asked (which I haven't seen you respond to), who do you think was on the sidelines who would have strengthened this so called weakened team?

It's all well and good being critical but without putting forward an alternative proposal doesn't give you a lot of credibility to be honest, especially if it's a serious suggestion that we must have had a weaker side as we lost. Quite simply, we didn't score when we were on top and in the end, they were better than we were.

I'd be more bloody angry at the "fans" who have tarnished what is usually a decent reputation we have for travelling support. Absolute idiots. Although not as much of an idiot as the two stewards who opened the bloody gate... what on earth did they think they were doing?

Anyhow, back on topic... as for the game itself we started brilliantly and should have been a couple of goals up before they got back into it after about half an hour. From that point on you could see what was coming and actually, Dagenham looked a really decent footballing outfit; lots of short, accurate passes and one touch stuff. We had to defend really well to restrict their goal scoring opportunities to the two they had.

Rush showed a ridiculous piece of skill in the corner early on that wouldn't have been out of place in the Premiership. Sadly, that was it from him. The defender who brought him down was booked and should have been thoroughly tested as he wouldn't have been able to touch anyone without risking a red card. We didn't do that.

Dennis was man marked with another in very close attendance every time he got the ball and looked very average, although he did have our only real chance in the second half which their keeper tipped over.

As for Kensdale... anonymous in the first half and poor in the second... caught out of position a couple of times, gave the ball away countless times and played a delightful long ball to absolutely no-one at one point. It was so astray it was difficult to see who he was actually trying to get it to. KM said he was happy with him so he must have something about him. I'm personally yet to see it. Happy to give him the benefit and he may well grow into fans favourite. Let's hope.

Coulson - was clearly a great guy once upon a time but just looks like a pub footballer now. The fastest he ran was off the pitch when he was subbed.

Egbri - I'd forgotten why he wasn't a more regular contender. Then he came on and I remembered. Not NL standard.

Gard - For me, he didn't do enough to be knocking on the door of a regular spot. If keeping him and Atkinson as well as bringing others in is an option, then great, extend his contract to the end of the season. But we still need people who are better than what we have so if we can't bring anyone else in without someone leaving, then unfortunately he and Atko will have to make way.

Ralph and Hobson I thought were decent for the whole game, Dalby showed some nice touches but was never a threat, Demitriou started ok but for the last 20 looked like it was his third game in a week and Ferguson was, well, Ferguson. Always looks like he is unaware anyone else is on the pitch and I don't mean that in a good way. Some players always look as though they have tons of time and are brilliant at making space. He just thinks he has tons of time and doesn't.

Arnold did well, couldn't have stopped either goal and his distribution was quick and accurate.

The ref was the best I have seen at this level and let the game flow well I thought.

Anyway, back to the league...

 

[tommy tucker]

This is why we need to keep up the fight to climb up the league this season .Then clear out the old players and replace them with some new fresh younger players . For the battle next season .

 

[in the know]

I think he played the strongest side he could. The only question mark would possibly be Lopata over Kensdale or Hobson, but as KM said post match, neither Lopata nor Clifford have trained since Tuesday and they needed to protect them a bit, Murphy's injured, Neal cup tied... As others have asked (which I haven't seen you respond to), who do you think was on the sidelines who would have strengthened this so called weakened team?

It's all well and good being critical but without putting forward an alternative proposal doesn't give you a lot of credibility to be honest, especially if it's a serious suggestion that we must have had a weaker side as we lost. Quite simply, we didn't score when we were on top and in the end, they were better than we were.

I'd be more bloody angry at the "fans" who have tarnished what is usually a decent reputation we have for travelling support. Absolute idiots. Although not as much of an idiot as the two stewards who opened the bloody gate... what on earth did they think they were doing?

Anyhow, back on topic... as for the game itself we started brilliantly and should have been a couple of goals up before they got back into it after about half an hour. From that point on you could see what was coming and actually, Dagenham looked a really decent footballing outfit; lots of short, accurate passes and one touch stuff. We had to defend really well to restrict their goal scoring opportunities to the two they had.

Rush showed a ridiculous piece of skill in the corner early on that wouldn't have been out of place in the Premiership. Sadly, that was it from him. The defender who brought him down was booked and should have been thoroughly tested as he wouldn't have been able to touch anyone without risking a red card. We didn't do that.

Dennis was man marked with another in very close attendance every time he got the ball and looked very average, although he did have our only real chance in the second half which their keeper tipped over.

As for Kensdale... anonymous in the first half and poor in the second... caught out of position a couple of times, gave the ball away countless times and played a delightful long ball to absolutely no-one at one point. It was so astray it was difficult to see who he was actually trying to get it to. KM said he was happy with him so he must have something about him. I'm personally yet to see it. Happy to give him the benefit and he way well grow into fans favourite. Let's hope.

Coulson - was clearly a great guy once upon a time but just looks like a pub footballer now. The fastest he ran was off the pitch when he was subbed.

Egbri - I'd forgotten why he wasn't a more regular contender. Then he came on and I remembered. Not NL standard.

Gard - For me, he didn't do enough to be knocking on the door of a regular spot. If keeping him and Atkinson as well as bringing others in is an option, then great, extend his contract to the end of the season. But we still need people who are better than what we have so if we can't bring anyone else in without someone leaving, then unfortunately he and Atko will have to make way.

Ralph and Hobson I thought were decent for the whole game, Dalby showed some nice touches but was never a threat, Demitriou started ok but for the last 20 looked like it was his third game in a week and Ferguson was, well, Ferguson. Always looks like he is unaware anyone else is on the pitch and I don't mean that in a good way. Some players always look as though they have tons of time and are brilliant at making space. He just thinks he has tons of time and doesn't.

Arnold did well, couldn't have stopped either goal and his distribution was quick and accurate.

The ref was the best I have seen at this level and let the game flow well I thought.

Anyway, back to the league...

spot on summary from what watched too. Also thought the ref was quite good. Last Tuesdays ref was awful. I've heard at one point during the game after his drop ball debacles, he actually admitted to one of our senior players during the usual in game discussions that he realised he was having a mare.! Our player just told him to do his best. !!

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

It's not for me to pick the team, I'm not the manager. Do you believe that was our best team we could have put out? I'm guessing you have all the inside info who can and can't play!!

Over to you....

Blimey!
There must be about 10 posts pointing out the reasons why normal starters missed out.
Have you read them?

 

[rigsby]

Don't remember anyone wanting the academy reduced on Tuesday night after Tom Clifford scored the winner. Besides thats for another thread because you cant have half an academy. There are loads of rules including how much you spend, number of staff and coaching hours etc.

The Dagenham fans in the Eastbrook all thought we were better team and up until the goal and much improved overall....People seem to have forgot that their keeper had to make decent saves in the second half just before they scored.

That was with 5 forced changes, CM being the most effected as you need the right people if you have 3 forwards in front of you. Nice to see Harrison Neal sitting in our end but that was the difference.

There two goals, a cheeky flick and the low cross. Came from very similar chances we had in the first half. The difference is Rush was hauled down when he slipped inside by the edge of the box and his flicked header was blocked. Also in that half MD could have slid like their lad did for goal but chose not to.

The main thing that came out of yesterdays game was still obvious....The squad morale/team spirit is much better. In fact both teams made some excellent blocks and anyone claiming Coulson had a bad game is lying.

At 2-0 the Narm under 5's decided to charge towards ours. They entertained us with a game of 80-a-side catch the Lucozade bottle. I think is was for the lino's safety more than players that we had a stoppage.

After the restart that is when you could see game over in our body language. I have no problem with that. Even if a miracle happened and we pulled it back to 2-2 the extra time and cost to out players might ruin our league form.

So over all the game was treated just how any FA competition should be. We had a good professional go but knew when to quit without causing further damage. Well done to all involved and lets look forward to a Friday night under lights.......You know its going to be good so make sure your there.

 

[fbm]

The main thing that came out of yesterdays game was still obvious....The squad morale/team spirit is much better. In fact both teams made some excellent blocks and anyone claiming Coulson had a bad game is lying.

Not so much a bad game - some decent headers, positioning superb and always talking - but he is so slow, that in itself is a liability.

 

[rigsby]

Not so much a bad game - some decent headers, positioning superb and always talking - but he is so slow, that in itself is a liability.

We know that about his pace, we knew before he arrived but he is still commanding in the air. Which is what you need in the NL and probably Hobson's weakest area.

Coulson should be a real threat in their box, he had one header cleared off the line. After that our delivery once again let us down as did the final ball in open play

 

[Shrimper]

Don't remember anyone wanting the academy reduced on Tuesday night after Tom Clifford scored the winner. Besides thats for another thread because you cant have half an academy. There are loads of rules including how much you spend, number of staff and coaching hours etc.

The Dagenham fans in the Eastbrook all thought we were better team and up until the goal and much improved overall....People seem to have forgot that their keeper had to make decent saves in the second half just before they scored.

That was with 5 forced changes, CM being the most effected as you need the right people if you have 3 forwards in front of you. Nice to see Harrison Neal sitting in our end but that was the difference.

There two goals, a cheeky flick and the low cross. Came from very similar chances we had in the first half. The difference is Rush was hauled down when he slipped inside by the edge of the box and his flicked header was blocked. Also in that half MD could have slid like their lad did for goal but chose not to.

The main thing that came out of yesterdays game was still obvious....The squad morale/team spirit is much better. In fact both teams made some excellent blocks and anyone claiming Coulson had a bad game is lying.

At 2-0 the Narm under 5's decided to charge towards ours. They entertained us with a game of 80-a-side catch the Lucozade bottle. I think is was for the lino's safety more than players that we had a stoppage.

After the restart that is when you could see game over in our body language. I have no problem with that. Even if a miracle happened and we pulled it back to 2-2 the extra time and cost to out players might ruin our league form.

So over all the game was treated just how any FA competition should be. We had a good professional go but knew when to quit without causing further damage. Well done to all involved and lets look forward to a Friday night under lights.......You know its going to be good so make sure your there.

He was awful. Once they started running at him he was done.

 

[BarryBlue52]

We only had half a team out! We will beat them next time out with a Full Team.
Blues XI: Arnold, Ralph, Hobson, Coulson (Clifford 79’), Dalby, Ferguson, Gard, Rush (Egbri 60’), Demetriou (C), Dennis (Walsh 83’), Kensdale. Subs Not Used: Andeng Ndi,
Howard,

What makes you think we'll beat them with a full team??? They were there for the taking in the first half both times we've played them and the moment they put any pressure we fell to pieces. I'm fed up.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

We know that about his pace, we knew before he arrived but he is still commanding in the air. Which is what you need in the NL and probably Hobson's weakest area.

Coulson should be a real threat in their box, he had one header cleared off the line. After that our delivery once again let us down as did the final ball in open play

I don't think you're saying he only had one decent header - just one header cleared off the line?
Before that, he spurned a decent chance when he got under the ball from a corner.
For the first one, he was totally unmarked, but got the timing all wrong.

I agree about the deliveries.
They got more predictable with every passing (no pun intended) opportunity.

But that second goal killed the tie, and Mr C's part in it was less than praiseworthy.
So, we are to assume he still had a good game that included missing two decent headed chances on top of poor defending for 2-0?
Yeah, agreed he was OK for the rest of the time, but on small margins are games won and lost.
My hope is that Kensdale picks up the pace pronto, and that Lopata doesn't suffer any further injury.

 

[southendkid]

Not sure what people are expecting from the academy, how many academies (excluding the biggest Prem teams that can hoard the talent) across the country see more than 1 or 2 come through each year? Last year Clifford showed he was ready and this year Sayers might have been the one to come through had Spurs not snapped him up. Even under Tilson how many kids really made it? We played some in the hopes they'd come through but they were usually some of the weaker players in the side and many dropped into non-league after us and were never seen again, it just wasn't as noticeable because we made signings that could carry a couple of kids that were still learning a game, who are the current supposed to have had covering for them in the last few seasons?

 

[flangejackrabbit]

I think management really need to take a good lookat the academy now ,and ask questions of it, Why we have so few now coming through and being up to playing first team football,in fact i think they probably have thats why so many now being sent out on loan ,Question do you supporters believe we should reduce the size of the academy, maybe just keep our u23s and u18s and u16s,filling those teams with young signings either poached from other clubs or released from other clubs or better stilltalent spotted by our scouts etc.Im a bit disappointed in our given chances these lads not taking them and most ppl here saying they a bit lightweight and easily knocked off the ball, do we have a strength and conditioning coach . Just genuine questions okay.

Where is the idea coming from that our academy isn't productive? It's overperforming for the size of the club: https://trainingground.guru/articles/manchester-united-top-2020/21-academy-productivity-rankings