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southend4ever

I used to play a little.
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Messages
8,751
It is a shame to now log onto this website and see at least 5 new threads a day that are shaped towards the same issues. Tilson out, Martin out, Finances. The once positive Shrimpers Chit-Chat is a mere needle in a haystack to what it once was.

Talk of relegation coincides with a team going through a poor run of form, not scoring goals and a team that have not had back-to-back wins all season.

So, is there anything positive we can talk about?

Well, we are not relegated. Great start. Looking at the fixtures our home form is going to be absolutely vital to us staying in the league this year. However, my stone cold sober belief is that we need a guarantee of goals. We unfortunately sold that in Barnard and with our next top scorer I think having scored 3 goals we now rely on the unproven Paterson and Spencer. Now interestingly with the thread about Stuart O'Keefe it could be that it is the unproven talent on lower wages (I don't know about Paterson) keep us up. They are the players whose morale will be higher, who will want to prove themselves more than the others in terms of everyday in training trying to gain a first team spot. I don't expect bags of goals and victories but right now a few points would be most welcome and survival in League One would be very well received. Are we in despair? No.

Steve Tilson very much builds his team on an impressive morale and camaraderie. Often participating in team building days the squad are close knit. I often see posts about tactics. These tend to be whenever we lose. With hindsight. That is easy to do. Anyone can say this that or the other would have worked better. Most football fans forget the wonders of a team and its manager if the team go through a bad patch. That is what I am witnessing on this website at the moment. Do you really think for one minute if Tilson walks or is sacked that Martin could replace him with a better managerial record than Tilly in the lower leagues. Why would a club in our financial position attract anyone with the completely limited resources that we have. The philosophy at the moment appears to be 'sell before we buy but when we buy make sure it is someone no where near as proven on lower wages'. Now unfortunately our financial situation has already dictated to our on the field game. No doubt affecting team confidence and the playing staff available to Tilly. With a small squad we will not be able to play 4-5-1, 4-4-2, 3-6-1, 3-5-2, 5-5-0, 7-2-1 and all the other formations that you have asked for. Look at all the teams in professional football. They do not chop and change their formations. At best they switch between just the 2. Normally the manager using the same formation but changing personnel to set a more attacking/defensive feel to the team.

We have to believe in the leader we have at our club, Adam Barrett. He now has a great deal of experience at this level and knows the team inside out. Reading his columns in the Echo he still has a belief and I think with a few results he can help string something together for the blues. What everyone has to realise is that by the 'forced' sale of Lee Barnard we are a lot lighter now in the goalscoring department and the team is significantly weaker. We do not have the footings at our club to go on and be a force at championship level. We have a small ground, bad finances but at times throughout the last 3/4 seasons a spirited team that pull together to play some very good football for League 1 standard and a manager that really encourages and supports the players. We haven't put together a run this season and for the first time we are looking down as opposed to up. The successes under Tilly can easily lull us into a false sense of security but personally and speaking to others right now survival in the league and as a club is paramount.

Get behind the team and try to find some positives. We all have a big passion in Southend but is there really a need for the posts of manager, assistant, chairman out. Will we be bought out by a billionaire? No. Our team are no doubt unsettled enough changes in the above I do not envisage as being positive. Every football fan enjoys success and if your team plays the best they have all season but loses 1-0 you still go home disappointed. This is about the long term future of Southend not just the immediate future on the basis that there is no answer to a quick fix solution.

Let's rally and support the team. Do not be disillusioned with the situation. With a bit of luck and a few wins our league position can change and going forward if we are still in league one we can look at playing our youngsters and slowly steadying the ship at the club. After all I think it is far more important that we are supporting a team in 5 years rather than bring in some overpaid players that will get us in line for a chance of promotion but then inadvertedly we end of getting wound up! For all that the management committee have done in the last 4/5 years and the success and happiness they have given us I think we deserve to stand by them 100%. I could draw comparisons to some other managers that have stuck by their manager and turned things around but even without them I fully believe we have a manager who is doing a sterling job with what is available to him.

Up the Blues.
 

palexander

Life President
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
7,540
Location
C*lchester
Nice post.

Despite all my negativity at times, I am a realist - and I am absolutely astounded by some of the posts on here saying "we need to buy" and "X is available, we should go get him".

We have no money. Nothing. Zero.

Its no good blaming Martin now - we have to see the project through and that means no money. He cannot magic it up and nobody is going to come and give us any.

It also means we need to sell to survive and rely on youngsters, loans and rejects (sorry Spencer, but its true).

Anyone crying out for signings is going to be sorely dissapointed, no matter how obvious the fact is. Lets just pray we find a way to stay up this season and despite what I say - I hope its with Tilson still at the helm.
 

MK Shrimper

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
52,329
I agree wholeheartedly but it's difficult to be positive when the team performances themselves is so abject. I've been to two games this season which is seriously down on my usual number. I'm not even sure I can face MK Dons away and it's down the road!
 

Mick

Life President
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
10,098
What everyone has to realise is that by the 'forced' sale of Lee Barnard we are a lot lighter now in the goalscoring department and the team is significantly weaker.


With respect, I think even the dimmest supporter has probably spotted this already.

I am not entirely convinced that the sale was forced, anymore than I am convinced that the meagre fee won't be swallowed up by lost crowds and the potential of relegation.

The club strikes me as a shambles and offloading our only goalscorer really doesn't help.
 

southend4ever

I used to play a little.
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Messages
8,751
With respect, I think even the dimmest supporter has probably spotted this already.

I am not entirely convinced that the sale was forced, anymore than I am convinced that the meagre fee won't be swallowed up by lost crowds and the potential of relegation.

The club strikes me as a shambles and offloading our only goalscorer really doesn't help.

Mick with courtesy and respect coming back in your direction I am pointing this out because it seems as though despite this sale some of our 'dim' and 'non-dim' supporters still go into matches with the same expectations as previous. As mentioned in my post it is important not to be lulled into a false sense of security over the potential quality of our team which is now not as good as it was.

The club is struggling yes. But it would be so much more useful for people to write to the club, phone the club offering their support and asking how/if they can help in anyway shape of form rather than moan about the club. It is depressing to think some people have supported the team for so many years and whilst I can understand their upset at the situation and perhaps even anger it wouldn't take much to offer support. It can only help.

Football means a hell of a lot to many a supporter and not so much to others. People view it in different lights. However, performances on the pitch are adversely effected by both internal/external matters. It would be refreshing to see those so disappointed and ready to bemoan about the club as a business and the club as a football team ready to offer their hand.

Selling programmes for free, working in the ticket office for free. Offering some marketing on their companies website. introduce new concepts and ideas and put them forward. Offer website support etc etc. But all too often everything is so dismissive. I await the reply that a pair of hands is not enough. Well, it is setting the precedent that may well count.
 

duncan bulgaria

Now Phats what I Small music⭐
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
2,740
Its hard to get upbeat about a team that has no quailty in it , no leadership and no goals , add to that the inability to defend , the fact we are skint and relying on youngsters to do a mens job.

We have the Hull factor about us this season , they got off to a good start and then plummeted down the league and was very lucky to stay up , I actually believe we will stay up as there are worse sides than us but it will be a mighty fight that we will have on our hands .

All the signs are there that we would be involved in a relegation scrap but lots of people use the saying that Tilly always works wonders in teh Jan sales and that we always come good toward steh end of the season .....its just not gonna happen this time around and the warning signs started months back .

The realism is that we are a very poor league one side who have no money and have a reputation now that we don;t pay wages on time , yes we wil still get players signing for us but they will be players who have no offers from else where and are using us to get first team football under their belt and will generally not be to teh standard that we have been used to in the past 5 seasons . If i was a player , i would give Southend a very wide berth and that is not a good rep to have hanging over your head .
 

southend4ever

I used to play a little.
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Messages
8,751
Its hard to get upbeat about a team that has no quailty in it , no leadership and no goals , add to that the inability to defend , the fact we are skint and relying on youngsters to do a mens job.

We have the Hull factor about us this season , they got off to a good start and then plummeted down the league and was very lucky to stay up , I actually believe we will stay up as there are worse sides than us but it will be a mighty fight that we will have on our hands .

All the signs are there that we would be involved in a relegation scrap but lots of people use the saying that Tilly always works wonders in teh Jan sales and that we always come good toward steh end of the season .....its just not gonna happen this time around and the warning signs started months back .

The realism is that we are a very poor league one side who have no money and have a reputation now that we don;t pay wages on time , yes we wil still get players signing for us but they will be players who have no offers from else where and are using us to get first team football under their belt and will generally not be to teh standard that we have been used to in the past 5 seasons . If i was a player , i would give Southend a very wide berth and that is not a good rep to have hanging over your head .

It may be hard to get upbeat but it is perhaps not neccessary stepping back and assessing the facts to be so downbeat. That is more the point I am making.
 

superblue24

Director
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
3,466
Location
Ipswich
I understand where your coming from, I really do. It breaks my heart to see the state of current affairs. My issues are that:

a) Despite you saying we have not been relegated yet, that is only by virtue of the incomplete 2009/10 season at the moment. It is still a possibility. Sorry to adopt the glass half empty approach.

b) Our players lack the fire in their belly, and the ones that do have it are poor.

c) I honestly cannot see this team beating anyone else in League One, and especially not the next 5 games or so. Another thread sights Wycombe and Exeter as being worse than us? Form is what matters, and we have taken one point off of those clubs in our last recent meetings. Something is seriously wrong at this club right now, and we can the longer we bury our heads in the sand, the harder it will be to accept when we drop into L2. I know this is a highly pessimistic opinion, and bound to rub some of you up the wrong way, but I honestly feel inside that the team have become incapable of winning....We have won 2 games in 10 since, and both of those games were by virtue of late comebacks. We haven't even kept a clean sheet since October.

Again, sorry to be snivelling on a thread intended to be "positive".
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
19,752
Location
G69
Selling programmes for free, working in the ticket office for free. Offering some marketing on their companies website. introduce new concepts and ideas and put them forward. Offer website support etc etc. But all too often everything is so dismissive. I await the reply that a pair of hands is not enough. Well, it is setting the precedent that may well count.

All very well saying this, but look at how Ron dismissed people's offers of help in the dark days of October & November.

I can't see them accepting this kind of activity, especially now both the main marketing guys have upped & left!
 

Somerset Ex-TTB

Members
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
4,290
Location
Yeovil
I think the reason for despair is the chronic underinvestment in the club in the past 2 seasons, has finally caught up with us.

We were in this position last year and Tilly pulled Dervitte and Robinson out of the hat (loanees, so minimal investment), however this year it doesn't even look like we are going to get anyone, and if we do, as a previous poster said, Southend is going to be the last resort.

Since the end of last season we have lost, Dervitte, Robinson, Clarke, Barnard, Revell and Betsy

They have been replaced with Patterson, Mvoto, Malone and Spencer and who else?

That alone must be a saving a fair few grand a week in wages?

If you go back to the prior year, then you can add Bailey, Flahaven, Gower, Hammill, Mulgrew etc. to that list and they have also been replaced by cheaper options, in Moussa, Grant JFC, Laurent.

How this club can still be losing money is a mystery as the wage bill must now be similar to many league 2 or even conference clubs, with income about the 6th or 7th biggest in League one.

I know you are all going to say the money is going to the new stadium, but surely the balance is all wrong at present, and if this continues for another season or so, then the whole past 10 years of growing the club from 3500 to 7000 fans is going to count for absolutely nothing
 

southend4ever

I used to play a little.
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Messages
8,751
And even if we go down, it means a weekend in Morecambe, stopping off at my Auntie Lil's guest house for a plate or 3 of her famous Lancashire Hotpot.



Now that is NOT Despair. That is beautiful and the hotpot as well!

So Glasgow you are going to take the stubborn approach of not offering your hand or putting people off because Ron did not take help before. There is different forms of help. Who know's the exact finances of this football club in comparison to others?

We are quite frankly a feeder club. We have given a home to some quality players in the last few years only for the players to move on elsewhere. We don't look like playing at a higher level anytime soon but the only way to make this happen soon would surely be a BIG (huge) investment which is most unlikely.
 

Jay_Shrimper

Mummy's Little Soldier
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
2,643
Relegation is not a disaster, going out of business is.

Whether we support the club in League One, or League Two next season, we need to back the club we ALL love.

We don't ditch the club in the rough patches and support in the good times, supporters support throughout!
 

WickfordShrimper

President
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
4,504
Relegation is not a disaster, going out of business is.

Whether we support the club in League One, or League Two next season, we need to back the club we ALL love.

We don't ditch the club in the rough patches and support in the good times, supporters support throughout!

Well Said Jay :-)
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
35,959
Location
London
I think the reason for despair is the chronic underinvestment in the club in the past 2 seasons, has finally caught up with us.

We were in this position last year and Tilly pulled Dervitte and Robinson out of the hat (loanees, so minimal investment), however this year it doesn't even look like we are going to get anyone, and if we do, as a previous poster said, Southend is going to be the last resort.

Since the end of last season we have lost, Dervitte, Robinson, Clarke, Barnard, Revell and Betsy

They have been replaced with Patterson, Mvoto, Malone and Spencer and who else?

That alone must be a saving a fair few grand a week in wages?

If you go back to the prior year, then you can add Bailey, Flahaven, Gower, Hammill, Mulgrew etc. to that list and they have also been replaced by cheaper options, in Moussa, Grant JFC, Laurent.

How this club can still be losing money is a mystery as the wage bill must now be similar to many league 2 or even conference clubs, with income about the 6th or 7th biggest in League one.

I know you are all going to say the money is going to the new stadium, but surely the balance is all wrong at present, and if this continues for another season or so, then the whole past 10 years of growing the club from 3500 to 7000 fans is going to count for absolutely nothing

We lost what was it £2m(?) in our last year for which accounts are available. I'm sure as an ex-treasurer you realise that we'd need to save more than a fair few grand a week to break even.
 

united we stand

Life President⭐
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
7,056
Location
Wickford
It is a shame to now log onto this website and see at least 5 new threads a day that are shaped towards the same issues. Tilson out, Martin out, Finances. The once positive Shrimpers Chit-Chat is a mere needle in a haystack to what it once was.

Talk of relegation coincides with a team going through a poor run of form, not scoring goals and a team that have not had back-to-back wins all season.

So, is there anything positive we can talk about?

Well, we are not relegated. Great start. Looking at the fixtures our home form is going to be absolutely vital to us staying in the league this year. However, my stone cold sober belief is that we need a guarantee of goals. We unfortunately sold that in Barnard and with our next top scorer I think having scored 3 goals we now rely on the unproven Paterson and Spencer. Now interestingly with the thread about Stuart O'Keefe it could be that it is the unproven talent on lower wages (I don't know about Paterson) keep us up. They are the players whose morale will be higher, who will want to prove themselves more than the others in terms of everyday in training trying to gain a first team spot. I don't expect bags of goals and victories but right now a few points would be most welcome and survival in League One would be very well received. Are we in despair? No.

Steve Tilson very much builds his team on an impressive morale and camaraderie. Often participating in team building days the squad are close knit. I often see posts about tactics. These tend to be whenever we lose. With hindsight. That is easy to do. Anyone can say this that or the other would have worked better. Most football fans forget the wonders of a team and its manager if the team go through a bad patch. That is what I am witnessing on this website at the moment. Do you really think for one minute if Tilson walks or is sacked that Martin could replace him with a better managerial record than Tilly in the lower leagues. Why would a club in our financial position attract anyone with the completely limited resources that we have. The philosophy at the moment appears to be 'sell before we buy but when we buy make sure it is someone no where near as proven on lower wages'. Now unfortunately our financial situation has already dictated to our on the field game. No doubt affecting team confidence and the playing staff available to Tilly. With a small squad we will not be able to play 4-5-1, 4-4-2, 3-6-1, 3-5-2, 5-5-0, 7-2-1 and all the other formations that you have asked for. Look at all the teams in professional football. They do not chop and change their formations. At best they switch between just the 2. Normally the manager using the same formation but changing personnel to set a more attacking/defensive feel to the team.

We have to believe in the leader we have at our club, Adam Barrett. He now has a great deal of experience at this level and knows the team inside out. Reading his columns in the Echo he still has a belief and I think with a few results he can help string something together for the blues. What everyone has to realise is that by the 'forced' sale of Lee Barnard we are a lot lighter now in the goalscoring department and the team is significantly weaker. We do not have the footings at our club to go on and be a force at championship level. We have a small ground, bad finances but at times throughout the last 3/4 seasons a spirited team that pull together to play some very good football for League 1 standard and a manager that really encourages and supports the players. We haven't put together a run this season and for the first time we are looking down as opposed to up. The successes under Tilly can easily lull us into a false sense of security but personally and speaking to others right now survival in the league and as a club is paramount.

Get behind the team and try to find some positives. We all have a big passion in Southend but is there really a need for the posts of manager, assistant, chairman out. Will we be bought out by a billionaire? No. Our team are no doubt unsettled enough changes in the above I do not envisage as being positive. Every football fan enjoys success and if your team plays the best they have all season but loses 1-0 you still go home disappointed. This is about the long term future of Southend not just the immediate future on the basis that there is no answer to a quick fix solution.

Let's rally and support the team. Do not be disillusioned with the situation. With a bit of luck and a few wins our league position can change and going forward if we are still in league one we can look at playing our youngsters and slowly steadying the ship at the club. After all I think it is far more important that we are supporting a team in 5 years rather than bring in some overpaid players that will get us in line for a chance of promotion but then inadvertedly we end of getting wound up! For all that the management committee have done in the last 4/5 years and the success and happiness they have given us I think we deserve to stand by them 100%. I could draw comparisons to some other managers that have stuck by their manager and turned things around but even without them I fully believe we have a manager who is doing a sterling job with what is available to him.

Up the Blues.

I agree with the above, but unfortunatley all you have done is remind me of the mess we are in . The post is about being positive, but in X hundred words all you have come up with is we are not relegated yet, and Barrett is a fighter.

I am still glass half full, we will pull through and the stadium will come to frution, but I admit to not being able to go to the last home game and not being too upset about it ---- and that isn't right
 

superblue24

Director
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
3,466
Location
Ipswich
We lost what was it £2m(?) in our last year for which accounts are available. I'm sure as an ex-treasurer you realise that we'd need to save more than a fair few grand a week to break even.

Maybe Ron could start cutting on "Expenses" and "Other Income/Admin expenses".....?

02/03
Expenses -0.77M
Other Income/Admin expenses 0.34M

03/04
Expenses -0.9M
Other Income/Admin expenses -0.48M

04/05
Expenses -1.15M
Other Income/Admin expenses -0.77M

05/06
Expenses -1.2M
Other Income/Admin expenses 0.3M (including injection of 1.5M)

06/07
Expenses -1.88M
Other Income/Admin expenses -1.43M

07/08
Expenses -2.4M
Other Income/Admin expenses -1.977M

Or as an ex-treasurer, you might be able to shed light on the upward spiralling Expenses at the club? I am regrettably not qualified, so may well be overseeing something obvious to you?

Also, if we assume that each player from the CCC has now departed (apart from a couple) and have been brought in on let's say an average of £1K per player. That is £18K per week (based on 18 squad players), or £936K per year, so although doesn't clear the £2M deficit, it must have been of assistance. Again, my figures are complete guesses and could be way off the mark so looking for guidance on this?

I'm sure you'll make me look silly with these figures now.... :stupidme:

EDIT: Apologies, do not have last years figures to hand.
 

MK Shrimper

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
52,329
Relegation is not a disaster, going out of business is.

Whether we support the club in League One, or League Two next season, we need to back the club we ALL love.

We don't ditch the club in the rough patches and support in the good times, supporters support throughout!

I disagree. Relegation would be a disaster. Crowds will drop and we could see gates of <4000, especially when key players like Moussa and Grant leave and we're playing hoof ball and struggling to beat the likes of Morecambe.

Tilson will probably be sacked if not walk and the whole new stadium dream of a few years ago is back to square one.
 
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