Dirty Leeds

[Yorkshire Blue]

Not sure its been mentioned on here, but the Football League have agreed to go to arbitration over Dirty Leeds' 15 point deduction.

I know there is still a lot of football left to be played this season, but as things stand we'd have the most to lose from this when the Football League back down (as they invariably will).

A quick glance at the League table shows us just outside the play-offs but with an all important game in hand over Tranmere.

Leeds are just behind us as well, so what price us finishing in 6th, with cheating Dirty Leeds less than 5 points behind, only for the Football League to cut their penalty to 10 points, allowing them to leap-frog over us? :eek:

 

[BaileytheQuitter]

Leeds are getting their 15 points back?

 

[PrawNZ]

isn't it a win/lose situation? therefore if leeds win they get their 15 back, lose and quite rightly get fcuk all (and hopefully get thrown out the league too for breaking the contract saying they won't persue this!)
Can't really see them winning, they were lucky to be giving the 'golden share' in the first place

 

[The Big Shrimp]

I think Leeds will get something back, if not all 15 points. The reason for my thinking is this may cause other clubs into the same position i.e. Luton , Bournemouth & maybe Rotherham. The effect of this will probably cause any of those long established clubs out of the league next season when the EXTRA 15 point penalty kicks in.

The Inland Revenue (HMRC) have already said they will oppose any CVA that doesn't pay them out in full like clubs have to with football debts. This is what they said to Leeds & Boston last season & they've repeated again in the last few weeks/months.

The League have painted themselves into a corner & won't want a public hearing on this.

 

[sosman]

The League have painted themselves into a corner & won't want a public hearing on this.

Arbitration isn't a public hearing, which is probably why the league have proposed it. It doesn't follow that they have any plans to back down and I'm not really sure why people are forming that impression.

 

[sufcintheprem]

Can they get given an extra 5 points deduction for a frivolous appeal?

Seriously, Why have they got such complaints? They waited until they were down before going in to adminsitration to avoid any punishment. This is punishment.

 

[The Big Shrimp]

Can they get given an extra 5 points deduction for a frivolous appeal?

Seriously, Why have they got such complaints? They waited until they were down before going in to adminsitration to avoid any punishment. This is punishment.

As upsetting as it may be to a lot of people, Leeds did what any club would, & that is use the rules to their advantage. If the League wasn't run by a bunch of clowns, the options wouldn't have arisen!

The one thing I wonder about on this, is if Leeds win their appeal, will it leave the door open for Boston to do likewise & get a place back in the Conference?!

 

[Mr. Benedict]

As upsetting as it may be to a lot of people, Leeds did what any club would, & that is use the rules to their advantage. If the League wasn't run by a bunch of clowns, the options wouldn't have arisen!

The one thing I wonder about on this, is if Leeds win their appeal, will it leave the door open for Boston to do likewise & get a place back in the Conference?!

No, I don't think it will - they were chucked out of the conference for more reasons than just that IIRC. Besides, Boston are such a bent club I'm sure the Conference (being much stricter with their teams than the FL are) would find something else to pin on them as a reason to keep them down.

 

[Wickford Blue]

Does this mean that every club that has been deducted points for going into admin will have the right to get them back, I really do not understand this either Leeds went into admin or they didn't rules are quite clear!!

 

[Mr. Benedict]

Does this mean that every club that has been deducted points for going into admin will have the right to get them back, I really do not understand this either Leeds went into admin or they didn't rules are quite clear!!

This has nothing to do with points deducted for going into adminsitration - Leeds were punished for that under the rules at the time. The 15-point deduction arose because all the jiggery-pokery around the club in the summer resulted in Leeds not having a CVA that ensured all football debts were met. Under FL rules, all clubs that are in administration need to have one to gain their "golden share" and entry to the FL - so the league didn't have to accept Leeds into the competition at all this year. Instead of banishing them, they deducted them 15 points for not meeting entry requirements. Leeds then decided to twist this to make it seem like they'd been punished for the same thing twice. Thankfully most clubs in the FL didn't buy it and the deduction was passed, but they've been railing against it ever since - apparently the table they print in their programme doesn't reflect the deduction at all.

 

[mattytheshrimper]

good point, does this mean luton and bournemouth will be wanting their points back. i hate how dirty leeds think they have more rights than any other club.

 

[BrettieAngell]

No, I don't think it will - they were chucked out of the conference for more reasons than just that IIRC. Besides, Boston are such a bent club I'm sure the Conference (being much stricter with their teams than the FL are) would find something else to pin on them as a reason to keep them down.

Didn't Boston take voluntary relegation to the Conference North?

 

[Mr. Benedict]

good point, does this mean luton and bournemouth will be wanting their points back. i hate how dirty leeds think they have more rights than any other club.

LooTown and Bournemouth may well be in trouble if they can't get their CVAs sorted, though as I say the 10-point deduction isn't the issue here.

 

[Wickford Blue]

Mr Benedict, thanks for that, without doubt then they will get at least 5 points abck if not the whole 15 as this will mean the league having to show some B**ls which they do not have especially when Ken Bates is shouting at them!!

 

[Mr. Benedict]

Mr Benedict, thanks for that, without doubt then they will get at least 5 points abck if not the whole 15 as this will mean the league having to show some B**ls which they do not have especially when Ken Bates is shouting at them!!

I wouldn't say that it's a given that they'll get any points back - it depends how the arbitration committee see the case. If Leeds' appeal is rejected, though, the FL have created a rather dangerous precedent considering HMRC's new stance of not allowing CVAs that state all football debts are met in full - effectively we could see every club that goes into admin being docked 10 points at the time and then another 15 at the start of the next season.

 

[Lord Football]

Imagine....

Leeds get 15 points.

As a result Doncaster finish third and lose in the play offs.
We finish seventh and miss out on the play offs.

Doncaster lose the prize money, the additional gate receipts from CCC and the TV money.

We lose the tv money and gate receipts from the play offs.

So, both Doncaster and Southend sue the FL for loss of earnings and restiction of trade.

This really is a can of worms the FL do not wish to open.

 

[The Big Shrimp]

I wouldn't say that it's a given that they'll get any points back - it depends how the arbitration committee see the case. If Leeds' appeal is rejected, though, the FL have created a rather dangerous precedent considering HMRC's new stance of not allowing CVAs that state all football debts are met in full - effectively we could see every club that goes into admin being docked 10 points at the time and then another 15 at the start of the next season.

At last somebody has finally got the point of whats going on.

Look at the bigger picture, not Leeds this or Leeds that. It will mean that any team going into administration will be deducted 25 points in total, unless they don't owe HMRC any money. When you consider that most companies or clubs that take this route are pushed there by HMRC!!

 

[Beefy]

At last somebody has finally got the point of whats going on.

Look at the bigger picture, not Leeds this or Leeds that. It will mean that any team going into administration will be deducted 25 points in total, unless they don't owe HMRC any money. When you consider that most companies or clubs that take this route are pushed there by HMRC!!

It won't - it'll mean that the Clubs will have to agree a re-payment structure with the HMRC, which they should be doing anyway. In my eyes, clubs who end up owing the HMRC vast sums of money are essentially cheating. They are using the money that they should be paying off in tax as working capital, allowing them to spend extra money on transfer fees and wages and by extension punish all the other clubs who actually meet their legal obligations.

I don't think the punishment for going into Administration is anywhere near harsh enough, but that's another thread entirely. I have a certain sympathy for Leeds though in that they legitimately exploited the loophole in the legislation last season and took the punishment when they were already effectively relegated. Had that not happened I doubt that FA would have invented this second crime and hit them with the 15 point penalty.

 

[CC51DAS]

It won't - it'll mean that the Clubs will have to agree a re-payment structure with the HMRC, which they should be doing anyway. In my eyes, clubs who end up owing the HMRC vast sums of money are essentially cheating. They are using the money that they should be paying off in tax as working capital, allowing them to spend extra money on transfer fees and wages and by extension punish all the other clubs who actually meet their legal obligations.

I don't think the punishment for going into Administration is anywhere near harsh enough, but that's another thread entirely. I have a certain sympathy for Leeds though in that they legitimately exploited the loophole in the legislation last season and took the punishment when they were already effectively relegated. Had that not happened I doubt that FA would have invented this second crime and hit them with the 15 point penalty.

Spot on as usual Beefy . I just hope we don't find ourselves eating our words come 26th April . Boy do we need a positive decision this week .

 

[haveaguiness]

as a couple of people have already said though, its not for the same thing. they were deducted 10 points for administration and the 15 was for the golden share which they didnt have, and as someone else already stated if you dont hve that golden share then you shouldnt even be in the competition. so leeds should not think themseleves hard done by but lucky they are even still in this league let alone any other league in this country.

What annoyed my though was they offered so little to repay their debts, and then a couple of weeks later they were offering upwards of £250,000 for players. Surely this is just complete fraud of saying you can only pay 7p in the pound of your debts and then going to spend loads of money???

im not the greatest with this so if someone could clear up the money in the pound business that would be lovely???