Division 1 North and South

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Because of the old photo's thread, I discovered that when Southend played their first game at Roots Hall in 1955, they were in Division 3 South. There was 4 Divisions, 1, 2, 3 North and 3 South.
Now because of rising debt and with a few clubs struggling to survive in the 2 lower Leagues, do you think it would be a good idea to split our Division 1 and 2 into North and South. It would save a fortune in travelling expenses for clubs and supporters. It would save a fortune for clubs in stay overs on the Friday before most games played on Saturdays.
Would you be in favour or against?
If in favour, how would promotion work to still include the play-offs which are quite popular? I know what I would suggest, but would like to hear your ideas.
We would have more derby matches against Colchester and Orient, which is a big plus in my eyes.
Some of you may not fancy it now, but the way things are going with so many clubs owing Millions, something needs to be done. So in future years, the League bosses may be forced to look at this idea.
What's your view?

 

[Ricky Otto]

It would complicate the pyramid too much IMO. You’d have to split the Conference Prem as well as It would be silly having a team relegated from a regional league into a national league and then the knock on effect down the pyramid. Another problem would be the balance of the leagues, if you have a few seasons of only Northern teams getting relegated from the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] national division and you have 2 going up from each regional division you will have to change the geographical areas. Not for me in professional football, think the regionalisation is at the right place in the pyramid. It aint broke.

 

[DoDTS]

The big trouble is that if four were relegated from the championship, only two would be promoted from the South and two from the North, so promotion would be 2 chances out of 24 instead of 4 out of 24. Granted you would be promoted to the Championship but seeing as we can't even manage to get out of League, dream on.

In the Third Division (South) only 1 out of 24 was promoted.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I'm sure in 1955 (and before) not many people owned a car, hence travelling away would be much trickier. Train fare however was probably a lot cheaper :smile:

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

Good point for discussion.

As said above this would have ramifications for the Conference as well which is a point that I had not considered.

One of the factors you raise above is that clubs are in financial problems. True but I'm not sure that travel costs are the cause of the issue. More local games might increase overall attendance but I suspect that any additional income would go the same way ......... mainly on player's wages.

More still needs to be done to ensure that clubs live within their financial means over a meaningful period of time although this is a very difficult matter to control.

I suspect the answer could be more fan ownership of the clubs and that this would lead to a better balance between income and expenditure.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Great points raised already. It looks like it would be more difficult than I first thought. Just like to throw in there that the away support would be bigger because of less distance, so this would help all clubs financially.

 

[DoDTS]

So looking at the current League One and League Two if we were to split them North and South the following sides would (as I see it) be in the Southern section. Strangely enough 10 come from League One and 14 from League Two, also for next year with Gillingham, Col ewe and Borient in danger of going down and Barnet Woking or Bristol Rovers in the frame for promotion from the conference next year League Two could be quite Southern.

bristol city
cambridge
cheltenham
colchester
coventry
crawley
dagenham
exeter
gillingham
leyton orient
luton
mk dons
newport
northampton
oxford
peterborough
plymouth
portsmouth
southend
stevenage
swindon
wimbledon
wycombe
yeovil

 

[RobM]

Not much help for someone smack in the middle of the country! Split our division into three and add the conference as well - and do similar for the conference North & South.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Sort of kills it when Exeter in the South (254 miles from SS1) is further away than Tramere (North) at 249 miles.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Sort of kills it when Exeter in the South (254 miles from SS1) is further away than Tramere (North) at 249 miles.

That's bound to happen with a few fixtures, but overall the travelling is greatly reduced for the whole season.

 

[Jam_Man]

Whilst there are plenty of reasons for it not to work it would at lower league level make for more interesting fixtures with more local games.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

Not much help for someone smack in the middle of the country! Split our division into three and add the conference as well - and do similar for the conference North & South.

It does throw up anomalies - Gloucester and Lowestoft are in the Conference North at the moment.

 

[Mick]

It does throw up anomalies - Gloucester and Lowestoft are in the Conference North at the moment.

Indeed and Bishop Stortford were recently too. Lowestoft have a Tuesday night 400 mile round trip for a League game next week and these players have jobs to go to! Their festive local derby is Boston - a 200 mile trip! Regional football !

 

[MK Shrimper]

Indeed and Bishop Stortford were recently too. Lowestoft have a Tuesday night 400 mile round trip for a League game next week and these players have jobs to go to! Their festive local derby is Boston - a 200 mile trip! Regional football !

Lad I used to work with jacked it in as he was expected to do stupid trips on a Tuesday night - all to sit on a bench for 90 mins.,...

 

[Skyblue]

It would complicate the pyramid too much IMO. You’d have to split the Conference Prem as well as It would be silly having a team relegated from a regional league into a national league and then the knock on effect down the pyramid. Another problem would be the balance of the leagues, if you have a few seasons of only Northern teams getting relegated from the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] national division and you have 2 going up from each regional division you will have to change the geographical areas. Not for me in professional football, think the regionalisation is at the right place in the pyramid. It aint broke.

I think one day it will happen as more clubs go into administration. I personally think its a great idea and the balance would be addressed by the midlands clubs being adaptable. Coventry I think switched from the div 3 south to north back in the old days before div 4 came along.

 

[ozzie]

seems a good idea, but i must admit,i enjoyed going "north", watching the Shrimpers..Places like York,Barrow,Workington,Southport..Enjoyed drinking Northern beer as well..Maybe if to save money,they should go semi-pro?works well in Germany,but i know many fans would not like that

 

[RobM]

I doubt whether York would bring more away supporters than Orient, Col U, Gillingham, Stevenage, etc.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Even tho this has turned up more problems than I thought, thanks to you guys, I still think it's doable. It would be a major shake up with big hurdles to cross, but I think in the long term worthwhile. Like I said, there would be more local derbies. More away fans, which would boost all clubs finances and create a better atmosphere at games. Less travel for clubs and fans. When Southend for example, play way up North as it stands, they usually travel up the day before and have to pay for the whole travelling party's accommodation for that night. That costs a small fortune , especially significant to clubs like ours that are losing money every week.
So yes, having weighed things up, I am all for a Division 1 North, and a Division 1 South.

 

[Norwichshrimper]

Even tho this has turned up more problems than I thought, thanks to you guys, I still think it's doable. It would be a major shake up with big hurdles to cross, but I think in the long term worthwhile. Like I said, there would be more local derbies. More away fans, which would boost all clubs finances and create a better atmosphere at games. Less travel for clubs and fans. When Southend for example, play way up North as it stands, they usually travel up the day before and have to pay for the whole travelling party's accommodation for that night. That costs a small fortune , especially significant to clubs like ours that are losing money every week.
So yes, having weighed things up, I am all for a Division 1 North, and a Division 1 South.

I don't think there's anywhere near as much benefit to the North/South split that there was in the 1940/50's. Travelling is infinitely more efficient (in both time and cost) than it was back then.

2 leagues at the same level with only one league above to be promoted to would have too many teams with nothing to play for (even accounting for play offs).

Also, whilst I appreciate there would be more local games with a North/South split there is not a great deal of difference between going to Chesterfield, Sheffield or Grimsby than there is travelling to Bournemouth, Newport, Plymouth, Cheltenham or Torquay.

For those reasons I'm out!

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

I don't think there's anywhere near as much benefit to the North/South split that there was in the 1940/50's. Travelling is infinitely more efficient (in both time and cost) than it was back then.

2 leagues at the same level with only one league above to be promoted to would have too many teams with nothing to play for (even accounting for play offs).

Also, whilst I appreciate there would be more local games with a North/South split there is not a great deal of difference between going to Chesterfield, Sheffield or Grimsby than there is travelling to Bournemouth, Newport, Plymouth, Cheltenham or Torquay.

For those reasons I'm out!

I'm with you ......... plus (as I have already said) it's not the cost of taking the team across the country that creates the financial problems. Splitting North/South does very little (if anything) to address the cause of the financial problems. Yes, it might bring in some more income with improved attendances but as this would be a benefit to all the clubs, you could argue that the money should be spent on players to maintain competitiveness and hence you are back where you started.

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