Do we just have to accept we're stuck with Ron Martin now?

[Beefy]

Perhaps if the consortium outlined how they intend to make the club self sustaining , rather then tub thumping rhetoric (with many on here call spin when RM does it) might aid their cause.

We've been told this before - expenditure cuts.

To be fair to them, from what I can see they've got the financial muscle to be able to handle our cashflow problems better than Ron Martin has done over the past year. But someone else coming on board wouldn't suddenly stop us from haemorraging cash, it would jsut mean that they'd be better placed to mask the symptoms.

 

[Beefy]

You didn't say that, but why else would the consortium (or one of its members ) have purchased a piece of land when it was fully aware that the football club it purports to adore needs it for its final objective.

He hasn't specifically said that. ElstreeBlue could mean that they have some land completely unrelated that Sainsburys happen to want. That's why I've asked him to clarify his point.

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

Rather than the question being if we are 'stuck' with Ron Martin, perhaps it's time for those wishing to take over control of the club off-pitch to take onboard the fact that the supporters have heard it all before, seen it all before, with the result that some of us will be sceptical, and perhaps even cynical about their motives?

 

[ElstreeBlue]

I do wonder why I post sometimes! I'm asked a direct question. I answer it. I then get what I say used or interpreted in another way. (For the record, I wasn't talking about a piece of land that was bought to get in the way of the development at Roots Hall, but even if that was done I'd actually see that as a positive thing for the club if it ended up bringing about a change of regime to people I have a lot more confidence in.) I'm sure this is nothing deliberate on anyone's part. I'm sure it's just that we all care about the club and there's a lot of concern at the moment. And people are just reading into things that aren't there or simply want to find out more. But it does make me wonder why I post when I'm only seeking to share my opinions and info that I have and that I can reveal. It's not a threat or "throwing my toys out of my pram". I'll post if I want to. But I'm just saying I do wonder when I get some of the flak that I do.

People should also know that I come on here, and always have, purely as a fan. I'm not the consortium nor their spokesperson but have connections with them. In the same way as I've been putting over some of what they're about, so I also have put back to them some of what I've read on here. They may not always take on board my suggestions, though! I was a firm believer that they should come out and do the Echo article last week. I'm glad that was done. I wish more details had been revealed, but it's their call if they want to play their cards a bit closer to their chest.

I can't reveal everything I know. But I hope I've been able to share what I can. Maybe some people will back that up, particularly those I've PM'd. I don't want to hold back any info, but I can't always reveal it. That's not for any reason other than (a) there may be a bigger plan that is best not to reveal at this stage or (b) I'd be breaking confidences to do so.

I'm sure this post will lead to more people questioning the consortium/me, etc. Which will in turn make me wonder again why I bother!

 

[Beefy]

I don't think you're receiving any flak and don't see why you're getting so defensive.

After all the questioning that you've done in the past year, why do you think that we shouldn't do the same and instead should just blindly run into the welcoming arms of the Consortium? As Drastic Sturgeon said, as someone with the Consortium's ear I'd have thought that you would see this as an opportunity to see what the concerns of fans are and get the answers that we're looking for.

 

[palexander]

I do wonder why I post sometimes! I'm asked a direct question. I answer it. I then get what I say used or interpreted in another way. (For the record, I wasn't talking about a piece of land that was bought to get in the way of the development at Roots Hall, but even if that was done I'd actually see that as a positive thing for the club if it ended up bringing about a change of regime to people I have a lot more confidence in.) I'm sure this is nothing deliberate on anyone's part. I'm sure it's just that we all care about the club and there's a lot of concern at the moment. And people are just reading into things that aren't there or simply want to find out more. But it does make me wonder why I post when I'm only seeking to share my opinions and info that I have and that I can reveal. It's not a threat or "throwing my toys out of my pram". I'll post if I want to. But I'm just saying I do wonder when I get some of the flak that I do.

People should also know that I come on here, and always have, purely as a fan. I'm not the consortium nor their spokesperson but have connections with them. In the same way as I've been putting over some of what they're about, so I also have put back to them some of what I've read on here. They may not always take on board my suggestions, though! I was a firm believer that they should come out and do the Echo article last week. I'm glad that was done. I wish more details had been revealed, but it's their call if they want to play their cards a bit closer to their chest.

I can't reveal everything I know. But I hope I've been able to share what I can. Maybe some people will back that up, particularly those I've PM'd. I don't want to hold back any info, but I can't always reveal it. That's not for any reason other than (a) there may be a bigger plan that is best not to reveal at this stage or (b) I'd be breaking confidences to do so.

I'm sure this post will lead to more people questioning the consortium/me, etc. Which will in turn make me wonder again why I bother!

What you normally post about is of BIG concern of course to fans, so its expected you are going to get a bit of a grilling. If you dont want that, then maybe best to not post anything - but I'm sure like me, we all appreciate what you are giving us and its all you are allowed to.

Did make me smile though, as you sound like a Ron Martin type figure...

"I'm asked a direct question. I answer it. I then get what I say used or interpreted in another way."

"And people are just reading into things that aren't there or simply want to find out more"

"I wish more details had been revealed, but it's their call if they want to play their cards a bit closer to their chest."

"I can't reveal everything I know. But I hope I've been able to share what I can"

"I don't want to hold back any info, but I can't always reveal it."

"there may be a bigger plan that is best not to reveal at this stage or (b) I'd be breaking confidences to do so."

All of these quotes are ones you could land at Rons door too and the ones he gets most stick for. Not easy at the top!?

 

[C C Csiders]

I do wonder why I post sometimes! I'm asked a direct question. I answer it. I then get what I say used or interpreted in another way.

Think yourself lucky! You could be Sweep and have everything you say repeated back to you as a question.

 

[Hotman]

They've already said they arent going to 'pump millions in' - so it sounds like they are just going to keep us bubbling along to reach that pot of gold themselves.

Having spoken to a key person in the consortium, and applying a little common sense, this is a fairly misleading conclusion from you. It appears that they want the club to be managed prudently (and not be commited to the kinds of contracts that were in place for Kevin Maher etc). The difference between them and the current regime is that they have the financial backing (certainly per the publicly available information on the relevant companies).

When was the bid made? Has much happened since then? Do the consortium want to help SUFC?

I

Yes, and again inserting my own analysis of the situation based on what I've been told during conversations, they want to reform SUFC, not merely pump cash in - everybody has their limits of available funds, so I think that this is the sensible option.

But if my maths is half as good as my looks then surely ron needs to rake in over 22 mil to get his companys out of the poo so a offer of blah blah is no good unless its more then 22 mil,but good luck anyway e b.

So The consortium have , at best, purchased a bit of land with the intention of making a fast buck out of the project , or , at worst, are considering scuppering the whole plan just so they can get their way .

Nice

Some agreed with BS that 22m would be the required walkaway figure. If so, Ron Martin is considering scuppering the whole club in the gamble to save Martin Dawn and Ron Martin.

Nice

 

[Jam_Man]

Having spoken to a key person in the consortium, and applying a little common sense, this is a fairly misleading conclusion from you. It appears that they want the club to be managed prudently (and not be commited to the kinds of contracts that were in place for Kevin Maher etc). The difference between them and the current regime is that they have the financial backing (certainly per the publicly available information on the relevant companies).

Yes, and again inserting my own analysis of the situation based on what I've been told during conversations, they want to reform SUFC, not merely pump cash in - everybody has their limits of available funds, so I think that this is the sensible option.




Some agreed with BS that 22m would be the required walkaway figure. If so, Ron Martin is considering scuppering the whole club in the gamble to save Martin Dawn and Ron Martin.

Nice

How would scuppering the club save him ?

As far as I can see he needs the project to survive, having SUFC die and losing the FF development would be the end of him surely?

 

[Beefy]

Some agreed with BS that 22m would be the required walkaway figure. If so, Ron Martin is considering scuppering the whole club in the gamble to save Martin Dawn and Ron Martin.

Nice

Would any of us accept financial ruin for themselves and their family to save the football club? Particularly if we thought that we could get to the pot of gold ourselves eventually?

I don't think people should feel sorry for Ron Martin but I think we need to realise that he is completely tied up into this project and isn't going to just step aside because things have started to go nasty.

 

[A Century United]

Having spoken to a key person in the consortium, and applying a little common sense, this is a fairly misleading conclusion from you. It appears that they want the club to be managed prudently (and not be commited to the kinds of contracts that were in place for Kevin Maher etc). The difference between them and the current regime is that they have the financial backing (certainly per the publicly available information on the relevant companies).

MC - if they are prepared to discuss this level of detail with you, why won't they discuss it in public?

Yes, and again inserting my own analysis of the situation based on what I've been told during conversations, they want to reform SUFC, not merely pump cash in - everybody has their limits of available funds, so I think that this is the sensible option.




Some agreed with BS that 22m would be the required walkaway figure. If so, Ron Martin is considering scuppering the whole club in the gamble to save Martin Dawn and Ron Martin.

Nice

But at what point do you accept that RM has won his gamble (which is not to defend it)? If it becomes clear that Sainsbury's are going to provide the necessary funds, and the Stadium is going ahead, then is it still appropriate to back a hostile takeover, which could easily delay things and damage our prospects?

 

[fbm]

I do wonder why I post sometimes! I'm asked a direct question. I answer it. I then get what I say used or interpreted in another way. (For the record, I wasn't talking about a piece of land that was bought to get in the way of the development at Roots Hall, but even if that was done I'd actually see that as a positive thing for the club if it ended up bringing about a change of regime to people I have a lot more confidence in.) I'm sure this is nothing deliberate on anyone's part. I'm sure it's just that we all care about the club and there's a lot of concern at the moment. And people are just reading into things that aren't there or simply want to find out more. But it does make me wonder why I post when I'm only seeking to share my opinions and info that I have and that I can reveal. It's not a threat or "throwing my toys out of my pram". I'll post if I want to. But I'm just saying I do wonder when I get some of the flak that I do.

People should also know that I come on here, and always have, purely as a fan. I'm not the consortium nor their spokesperson but have connections with them. In the same way as I've been putting over some of what they're about, so I also have put back to them some of what I've read on here. They may not always take on board my suggestions, though! I was a firm believer that they should come out and do the Echo article last week. I'm glad that was done. I wish more details had been revealed, but it's their call if they want to play their cards a bit closer to their chest.

I can't reveal everything I know. But I hope I've been able to share what I can. Maybe some people will back that up, particularly those I've PM'd. I don't want to hold back any info, but I can't always reveal it. That's not for any reason other than (a) there may be a bigger plan that is best not to reveal at this stage or (b) I'd be breaking confidences to do so.

I'm sure this post will lead to more people questioning the consortium/me, etc. Which will in turn make me wonder again why I bother!

Many have been doing this for years! Some of the unbelievable and convoluted theories that have pitched up on this board... that's half the problem.

And you must be aware that there surely has been stuff that Ron hasn't been able to reveal as well. It all cuts both ways.

 

[number11]

I do wonder why I post sometimes! I'm asked a direct question. I answer it. I then get what I say used or interpreted in another way. (For the record, I wasn't talking about a piece of land that was bought to get in the way of the development at Roots Hall, but even if that was done I'd actually see that as a positive thing for the club if it ended up bringing about a change of regime to people I have a lot more confidence in.) I'm sure this is nothing deliberate on anyone's part. I'm sure it's just that we all care about the club and there's a lot of concern at the moment. And people are just reading into things that aren't there or simply want to find out more. But it does make me wonder why I post when I'm only seeking to share my opinions and info that I have and that I can reveal. It's not a threat or "throwing my toys out of my pram". I'll post if I want to. But I'm just saying I do wonder when I get some of the flak that I do.

People should also know that I come on here, and always have, purely as a fan. I'm not the consortium nor their spokesperson but have connections with them. In the same way as I've been putting over some of what they're about, so I also have put back to them some of what I've read on here. They may not always take on board my suggestions, though! I was a firm believer that they should come out and do the Echo article last week. I'm glad that was done. I wish more details had been revealed, but it's their call if they want to play their cards a bit closer to their chest.

I can't reveal everything I know. But I hope I've been able to share what I can. Maybe some people will back that up, particularly those I've PM'd. I don't want to hold back any info, but I can't always reveal it. That's not for any reason other than (a) there may be a bigger plan that is best not to reveal at this stage or (b) I'd be breaking confidences to do so.

I'm sure this post will lead to more people questioning the consortium/me, etc. Which will in turn make me wonder again why I bother!

ES, dont take it personally....it's good to have you on here and I also think its healthy to stimulate debate on here. As someone said above, if you (and everyone else) are happy to scrutinise Ron's every move, then it seems only reasonable (and indeed sensible) for the consortium to be similarly scrutinized.

Despite your post, I would say the questions posed over the last couple of days remain, and all we have seen since is spin that Ron would be proud off ('Re-instate Tilly', '20 man squad', 'lets bring the downfall of Ron', 'consortium knows best and will help southend in a non - specific way':

Why have the consortium not made a new bid for SUFC if that is in the club's best interests? A lot has happened since the last offer was made. Would the consortium in fact get a better bargain if they waited for SUFC to go into administration and they picked it up cheaper from the administrator?

In actual terms, how do they, as 12 wealthy businessmen propose running SUFC (Ownership of stadium, rents, income from matchdays etc)

Is their primary motive to make a lot of money on the back of someone elses failed property deal or a philanthropic gesture to assist Southend and it's fans?

Im not against the consortium and would love for there to be a viable option to Ron Martin, but I don't think fans should be mislead into thinking the consortium is looking out for fans and the clubs interests and opposed to getting their hands on even more cash then they already have..... I hope I am wrong though and the consortium can offer some assurances. As has been said before, if they could do this then fans support would flood towards them and both parties would be able to achieve what they want. At this stage though I just feel they are being slightly disingenious about their motives and their methods.

 

[Hotman]

How would scuppering the club save him ?

As far as I can see he needs the project to survive, having SUFC die and losing the FF development would be the end of him surely?

The operative word being gamble - there is a very high risk of this gamble failing, or Sainsbury's bailing out if things continue as they are.

Your second statement is correct, and I wouldn't want to see SUFC die, FF development lost, or him bankrupt. But life can sometimes deal a **** hand.

 

[Hotman]

Would any of us accept financial ruin for themselves and their family to save the football club? Particularly if we thought that we could get to the pot of gold ourselves eventually?

I don't think people should feel sorry for Ron Martin but I think we need to realise that he is completely tied up into this project and isn't going to just step aside because things have started to go nasty.

No, most wouldn't accept financial ruin to save a football club, especially if they don't support that club. However, I believe that people should realise when to fold before causing more problems for the stakeholders of both the club and the ultimate funders.

 

[Hotman]

MC - if they are prepared to discuss this level of detail with you, why won't they discuss it in public?

I don't believe that I've disclosed any level of detail, just my opinion of the conversation and my take on the situation at SUFC.

I'll leave that to them.

But at what point do you accept that RM has won his gamble (which is not to defend it)? If it becomes clear that Sainsbury's are going to provide the necessary funds, and the Stadium is going ahead, then is it still appropriate to back a hostile takeover, which could easily delay things and damage our prospects?

I'll happily accept that the gamble has been won if he gets the club into Fossetts Farm, rectifies the cashflow position, and makes the club self-sustaining. I'll also be happy for him to take a wage, rather than "management charges".

But the fact that he is taking that gamble at the moment with little apparent contingency reserves is my concern.

 

[Hotman]

ES, dont take it personally....it's good to have you on here and I also think its healthy to stimulate debate on here. As someone said above, if you (and everyone else) are happy to scrutinise Ron's every move, then it seems only reasonable (and indeed sensible) for the consortium to be similarly scrutinized.

Despite your post, I would say the questions posed over the last couple of days remain, and all we have seen since is spin that Ron would be proud off ('Re-instate Tilly', '20 man squad', 'lets bring the downfall of Ron', 'consortium knows best and will help southend in a non - specific way':

Why have the consortium not made a new bid for SUFC if that is in the club's best interests? A lot has happened since the last offer was made. Would the consortium in fact get a better bargain if they waited for SUFC to go into administration and they picked it up cheaper from the administrator?

In actual terms, how do they, as 12 wealthy businessmen propose running SUFC (Ownership of stadium, rents, income from matchdays etc)

Is their primary motive to make a lot of money on the back of someone elses failed property deal or a philanthropic gesture to assist Southend and it's fans?

Im not against the consortium and would love for there to be a viable option to Ron Martin, but I don't think fans should be mislead into thinking the consortium is looking out for fans and the clubs interests and opposed to getting their hands on even more cash then they already have..... I hope I am wrong though and the consortium can offer some assurances. As has been said before, if they could do this then fans support would flood towards them and both parties would be able to achieve what they want. At this stage though I just feel they are being slightly disingenious about their motives and their methods.

Purely my take on the situation... I'd suggest that the two can go hand in hand, together with the desire to operate a self-sustaining club?

 

[number11]

Purely my take on the situation... I'd suggest that the two can go hand in hand, together with the desire to operate a self-sustaining club?

And as a poster I respect your view does give me a degree of comfort or at least a degree of intrigue as to what gives you cause to believe the virtues of the property developer consortium. To sum up up all of my posts though, concerns fans may have could be allayed if the consortium were honest about their intentions. That they are not suggests to me that they dont want to reveal their true intentions, or even publicly say something they know they will not stick to. Maybe Im just a cynic, but I can see nothing comforting our 'saviours' being property developers who are happier to see the club go into administration than trying to take over the club now.

 

[A Century United]

The operative word being gamble - there is a very high risk of this gamble failing, or Sainsbury's bailing out if things continue as they are.

Your second statement is correct, and I wouldn't want to see SUFC die, FF development lost, or him bankrupt. But life can sometimes deal a **** hand.

I'm sure the Consortium would love to believe that - but do you seriously believe that a business as large and savvy as Sainsbury's are going to allow this gamble to fail now? Ron's gamble, in my opinion, was that he would eventually get Sainsbury's to step in to safeguard their investment and plans, and it is starting to look as if he has pulled it off.

I don't believe that I've disclosed any level of detail, just my opinion of the conversation and my take on the situation at SUFC.

I'll leave that to them.



I'll happily accept that the gamble has been won if he gets the club into Fossetts Farm, rectifies the cashflow position, and makes the club self-sustaining. I'll also be happy for him to take a wage, rather than "management charges".

But the fact that he is taking that gamble at the moment with little apparent contingency reserves is my concern.

But you clearly have been told more than the average SUFC fan - doesn't this strike you as being a classic tactic to bring on board some of the more sympathetic and influential fans to try and sway opinion? Amd as has been said above, wouldn't a more straightforward way be to publish concrete proposals for all fans to consider, rather than a list of fine-sounding but ultimately meaningless aspirations?

 

[Beefy]

No, most wouldn't accept financial ruin to save a football club, especially if they don't support that club. However, I believe that people should realise when to fold before causing more problems for the stakeholders of both the club and the ultimate funders.

I think we're both coming at this from a similar stand-point. I just think that that time to fold before it's too late is long gone.