Do you support Southend's Grammar Schools?

[Benfleet A1]

Didn't you go to a private school or is that someone else?

Something he likes to gloss over. What's good for the goose stays with the goose. **** the gander.

 

[londonblue]

Didn't you go to a private school or is that someone else?

What school your parents send you to doesn't really make you a hypocrite if you happen to then turn into an adult and form your own opposite opinions.

For example, I happen to support grammar schools. In your world my opinion doesn't count because I went to a comprehensive school.

 

[Mad Cyril]

What school your parents send you to doesn't really make you a hypocrite if you happen to then turn into an adult and form your own opposite opinions.

For example, I happen to support grammar schools. In your world my opinion doesn't count because I went to a comprehensive school.

I didn't say it did.

No one can be blamed for where their parents sent them to school however the sheer number of privately educated people in entertainment, politics and the media is pretty depressing.

 

[manor15]

I went to a single sex grammar school in Southend and honestly think they should have them across the country.

The learning environment and atmosphere was a massive improvement on other schools, surrounded by other people who all wanted to learn and pushed each other to learn more and do better along the way. The teaching was excellent and there were loads of great extra-curricular activities because the students wanted to be there and wanted to make the most of the opportunities made available to them, while its the same in any school you won't find it to the same extent or on the same scale in any other type of school.

Whether the 11+ is the right way to separate students or not I don't know, I know some very bright people who had a bad day on the day of the exam and missed out and know some not so bright people with loaded parents who paid for them to be tutored on how to pass the exam for 2 or 3 years in advance of the exam, which is simply ridiculous. To put 10/11 year olds through that much pressure and stress is ridiculous, I've now sat GCSEs, A-Levels, etc and am currently studying for my degree but maintain that the 11+ was probably the most important exam I've ever sat in my life.

As for the "single sex is wrong" argument, I couldn't disagree more. Nowadays, all single sex schools, in Southend at least, accept both sexes in to the sixth form, which is where most students move on to at the end of year 11. That meant that during the most important years of our education and while girls had the biggest potential to be a distraction, there was no distraction in class or in schools. The schools often run social activities together in the first few years of being at the school so that you get to know people from the school of the opposite sex, and I could probably name on one hand the number of people in my year group who didn't have female friends outside of the school, and even they did as soon as girls joined in the sixth form.

At the moment grammar schools are the best chance of getting into Oxbridge unis without going to private school. The favouritism there is unbelievable, yet at the same time I know people at comprehensives who got offers from Oxbridge with a far worse application than people I knew at grammar school. I'm sure they have their quotas to fill and at the end of the day you're more likely to have the connections or reference at a grammar school than any other, whether that is right or wrong that is the fault of the universities.

I also know people who didn't want to go to uni but have done well because of the Old Boys associations and things like that that help people leaving school to get connections and find work, it presented them with far greater opportunities and options with what to do with their careers and they have made the most of what's available.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Didn't you go to a private school or is that someone else?

Highfield College,Eastwood HS and Westcliff HS.In that order.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Exactly, and in my working life I knuckle down and get on with stuff exactly as I did at school. Not having boys in class in a grammar school meant there were no distractions, teachers weren't distracted by those who didn't want to learn and behaviour was generally good. Grammar schools afford those who really want to make the best of their school learning the best opportunity.

And as I said earlier, this still seems to be the case, as evidenced by my friend's three children who have finished at the WHSs in the last 5-8 years.

You'll end up working with males though so you could learn to deal with such distractions at an earlier age in a mixed school.

If grammar schools are offering the best opportunity then what are the millions of other children being offered?

I have three daughters at a mixed gender, mixed ethnicity, mixed econonomic status local comp and the first one to leave has 9 As and a B and she has learnt a whole lot more about life than how to pass exams too.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Something he likes to gloss over. What's good for the goose stays with the goose. **** the gander.

Nope, not at all. I've never made a secret of it.Nor was I very impressed with the standard of education I received there.

In fact I've always said, if I hadn't moved to Eastwood HS when I did, (when HC closed down), I'd never have gotten so many "O" levels as I did there.

Ask Cricko about HC next time you see him.I'd be suprised if he remembers it very differently.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Ask Cricko about HC next time you see him.I'd be suRprised if he remembers it

No need to take the **** out of the old.

 

[Benfleet A1]

It's always those that had chance who want to take it away from others, isn't it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/private-education-vs-state-education-a-social-divide-that-must-be-eliminated-9581755.html

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It's always those that had chance who want to take it away from others, isn't it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/private-education-vs-state-education-a-social-divide-that-must-be-eliminated-9581755.html

I really don't think you can compare Harrow with H.C. (Incidentally,I used to live very near the school,when I ran a Probation Hostel in Harrow-on-the Hill).

Certainly, the author of the piece,as an ex-Grammar School boy isn't making the argument you imply.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Yep, always those that have had the opportunity want to take it away from others.

 

[OldBlueLady]

You'll end up working with males though so you could learn to deal with such distractions at an earlier age in a mixed school.

If grammar schools are offering the best opportunity then what are the millions of other children being offered?

I have three daughters at a mixed gender, mixed ethnicity, mixed economic status local comp and the first one to leave has 9 As and a B and she has learnt a whole lot more about life than how to pass exams too.

I suggest you read young Sam's account of his school life at a Southend grammar school. What I said applied to me 40 years ago still seems to ring true.

As for distractions, for me, that was what out of school hours was for, and I certainly made the most of those! :blush:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yep, always those that have had the opportunity want to take it away from others.

As I said it was hardly an opportunity,IMO.Ask Cricko what he thought of HC.

You really don't listen, do you? :nope:

It's like debating with a doorpost.

 

[Benfleet A1]

As I said it was hardly an opportunity,IMO.Ask Cricko what he thought of HC.

You really don't listen, do you? :nope:

It's like debating with a doorpost.

Oh the irony :hilarious::hilarious:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Oh the irony :hilarious::hilarious:

So why do you think a public school education is a good thing?

The article you provided a link for (if you've actually read it) argued the opposite.:dim:

 

[Benfleet A1]

:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:

What sort of opinion on public schools is that?

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

I went to a single sex grammar school in Southend and honestly think they should have them across the country.

The learning environment and atmosphere was a massive improvement on other schools, surrounded by other people who all wanted to learn and pushed each other to learn more and do better along the way. The teaching was excellent and there were loads of great extra-curricular activities because the students wanted to be there and wanted to make the most of the opportunities made available to them, while its the same in any school you won't find it to the same extent or on the same scale in any other type of school.

.

There are 163 Grammar schools in England, but not that many in Essex/Southend and none in Thurrock.

What other schools did you attend to find out what their atmosphere and learning environments were like?

My son achieved good GSCE grades at a local non-selective school last year and is currently doing A levels and hopes to go to University. There were plenty of children in his year who all wanted to learn and yes there were quite a few that didn't want to be there. The non-selective schools in Southend do a pretty good job with limited resources and they have to look after local children of all abilities, whereas the Grammar schools can choose to select the top 5% of children based on the 11+ from all over Essex/Southend & Thurrock.

Look at the way the Essex/Southend Grammar schools celebrate being in the top 20 or so schools in the country, hardly surprising is it when they can choose the best in the first place. Stick 20 SEN children in a Grammar school and see how well the school does then!

I actually think if we are going to keep Grammar schools in England (Scotland & Wales do not have Grammar schools) then the Kent/Medway approach is maybe better than Essex/Southend/Thurrock.
There are 39 Grammar schools in Kent/Medway and only 8 in Essex/Southend. I think the Kent/Medway ones take in the top 20% of pupils based on the 11+ and some of them are even mixed sex Grammar schools. I wonder how well they rate against the single sex Grammar schools, could probably look up on the league tables but can't be bothered! Mind you Essex/Southend/Thurrock is stuck with just the 8 Grammar schools as no new ones have been allowed since 1998.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I actually think if we are going to keep Grammar schools in England (Scotland & Wales do not have Grammar schools) then the Kent/Medway approach is maybe better than Essex/Southend/Thurrock.
There are 39 Grammar schools in Kent/Medway and only 8 in Essex/Southend. I think the Kent/Medway ones take in the top 20% of pupils based on the 11+ and some of them are even mixed sex Grammar schools. I wonder how well they rate against the single sex Grammar schools, could probably look up on the league tables but can't be bothered! Mind you Essex/Southend/Thurrock is stuck with just the 8 Grammar schools as no new ones have been allowed since 1998.

This is the only thing I disagree with (in your otherwise excellent post).

I did two periods of teaching practice (for my PGCE) at a so-called "comprehensive" in Kent.

Believe me, after selection at 11 (and then again at 14),there is precious little incentive for those pupils (the vast majority-80% as you say) to succeed in a system which has failed them (rather than the reverse).

 

[number11]

This is the only thing I disagree with (in your otherwise excellent post).

I did two periods of teaching practice (for my PGCE) at a so-called "comprehensive" in Kent.

Believe me, after selection at 11 (and then again at 14),there is precious little incentive for those pupils (the vast majority-80% as you say) to succeed in a system which has failed them (rather than the reverse).

Could you elaborate on the 'precious little incentive' point? What would you say are the 'incentives' and why are they not there?