Documentary Filming

[Kat_r]

Last week, when I was making the documentary. I wanted to interview Carl Reader. At the time Carl was unable to talk or have a conversation due to his most recent attempt to engage RM with correspondence.

Away from the documentary, I've just interviewed Carl Reader for 45 minutes (remotely) which I will be editing and making available to view this evening or tomorrow once I have finished my work commitments.

Until recently (and I have commented on it on SZ) I was unsure of where Carl funding was going to be coming from and how it would work. Having now spoken to him an length (Which I thank him for his time) I now fully understand his position, his partners and how they will not only look to invest a 9 figure sum (£100M +) to acquire all of the developments and the football club, but how he will run it with a 20 year investment backed cycle not a 5 year or in our current case 24 year backed debt cycle.

I was also unaware of Carl experience of running a football club. Not sure if it has been documented here previously about what he did with Hungerford but now I've taken the time to research that I find it very interesting.

Just for clarity, before first reaching out to Carl 10 days ago, I did not know who he was, I had not met him and today is the first time we have spoken on any matters directly regarding the football club.

I find it interesting, very interesting how privately he has reached out to RM to provide him with an NDA to sign purely so Carl can share the Billion £ worth of wealth in the fund but is yet to respond to him, except the day after he initially went public for wanting to buy the football club last year.

Touch wood I will get the interview up and out on YouTube this evening if not it will be tomorrow, just need to edit some bits out of it.

So Carl thinks the club is worth more than 100 million? Ok

 

[kentblues]

So Carl thinks the club is worth more than 100 million? Ok

No- the club PLUS the rest of the development - and it would be well in excess of £100m

 

[Kat_r]

Mixture of 2 and 3, I would suggest.

3 everytime. 3.

 

[danbowen]

No- the club PLUS the rest of the development - and it would be well in excess of £100m

the housing alone - if 900 homes are built at an average of £250k (as a ball park figure) per property that is £225m. I think at times people underestimate just how big this project actually is and therefore why Ron isnt going to leave until it is right for him. Lets be honest as much as we all want a change if anyone else was in his position would they do it differently to him in the sense of staying around until you get the most from it

 

[Kat_r]

the housing alone - if 900 homes are built at an average of £250k (as a ball park figure) per property that is £225m. I think at times people underestimate just how big this project actually is and therefore why Ron isnt going to leave until it is right for him. Lets be honest as much as we all want a change if anyone else was in his position would they do it differently to him in the sense of staying around until you get the most from it

Totally agree. But the rumour or insinuating rumour is he will sell for 100m and let somebody else develop it. It’s probably bs but interesting. Im not advocating it but it’s clear that’s what certain posters are implying. Could all be bs and I hope if it is Carl leaves us alone all this bs is as bad as rm bluster

 

[Kat_r]

Very interesting
It’s not in RM’s gift to sell the development as has been mentioned a few times. There are business/development partners and of course the ultimate owners of much the housing development SBC, and agreements already in place. Which is why I am certain Ron will be selling but not now. Hence, his non-engagement should be no surprise.
And it would also be interesting to hear how such a complex approach could be entertained without serious delays to the development?
Look forward to the detail- good work.

Yeah sbc would have to be involved I think. Leaves me to wonder why Carl is bothering unless his son is happy to sell too? But very strong rumour from dubai. Who knows.

 

[kentblues]

It’s a lot m

the housing alone - if 900 homes are built at an average of £250k (as a ball park figure) per property that is £225m. I think at times people underestimate just how big this project actually is and therefore why Ron isnt going to leave until it is right for him. Lets be honest as much as we all want a change if anyone else was in his position would they do it differently to him in the sense of staying around until you get the most from it

It’s a lot more than 900 homes and the total value at “market price” would be well north of £300m.

For reasons already explained the chances of a sale now are close to zero and hence RM’s disinterest in engaging is, and should be, no surprise whatsoever.

Really it’s a triumph of hope over expectation..regrettably…

 

[Kat_r]

It’s a lot m

It’s a lot more than 900 homes and the total value at “market price” would be well north of £300m.

For reasons already explained the chances of a sale now are close to zero and hence RM’s disinterest in engaging is, and should be, no surprise whatsoever.

Really it’s a triumph of hope over expectation..regrettably…

You mean ff and rh combined is 900? Or 900 at ff?

 

[nevereatwhitesnow]

100% agree with this. I generally dont see how a pension fund would convince their shareholders to agree to buying a football club and more importantly one which will never make huge profits, if any profit at all. All these big numbers being thrown around mean fans see that and lose sight of the overall picture and potential negatives.

I struggle to see the benefit of ownership via a pension fund as well because they will drop us as soon as they dont get what they are expecting and we will end up potentially in a situation like Bury, Scunthorpe, Macclesfield with the funding taken away from us however I will await the video from CRATE to see if there is more info around this.

I believe I am right in saying one of the French clubs were funded by a pension scheme (Monaco possibly) and they got shafted by them. I cant think of any other clubs owned by pension funds though but as mentioned above I think shareholders would laugh at them when they go to them saying we are looking at buying Southend United.

Sort of linked, Ipswich are now effectively owned by an American emergency services pension fund, they have received an injection of funds which looks like it’s giving them a good shot at promotion which clearly will increase their value. Whilst the backing leads to improvements on the pitch and therefore balance sheet it’s fine, but if their investment doesn’t improve things and they don’t get a sufficient return it’s a worry how their exit would leave the club.

I can see why a pension fund would see the attraction of SUFC given the potential development income and equally the low current league situation leaves plenty of opportunity for investment to lead to improvement in leagues and income but they would be looking for ownership of everything because of the ROI but again it would be fine if things progressed as per the plan but if it didn’t the situation would be as perilous as things are now

 

[kentblues]

You mean ff and rh combined is 900? Or 900 at ff?

It’s about 1200 at FF so getting towards 2000 including RH (from memory)

 

[Kat_r]

It’s about 1200 at FF so getting towards 2000 including RH (from memory)

Wow. Didn’t realise that. this way our population density will go from 7th outside London to 6th. In your opinion is this Carl stuff just bs?

 

[kentblues]

Wow. Didn’t realise that. this way our population density will go from 7th outside London to 6th. In your opinion is this Carl stuff just bs?

No- I am sure they want in. I don’t question their motivation. After all the hard work is done by others, so the opportunity is clear. It’s just very unlikely to get traction for the reasons stated.

 

[CanveyCastle]

One of the things against Martin is his age.

Does he sell now for plenty of millions or wait even more years and possibly croak before he gets his clammy hands on even more millions ?

 

[JD]

create one entity for the developing, building etc - and one for SUFC ..

But Ron is owed £20m.
How would you deal with that before the money comes in from the property sales?
Genuinely interested in how you think this can be done.

 

[Kat_r]

One of the things against Martin is his age.

Does he sell now for plenty of millions or wait even more years and possibly croak before he gets his clammy hands on even more millions ?

His son owns a lot of the property development stuff I think

 

[kentblues]

Cheers. Yeah I meant bs as in its likely Ron would sell before all the building is done. I can’t imagine he will. But others seem to think they do

I think they somehow hope he will - but it really is a triumph of hope over expectation..

 

[LeedsSUFC]

Ron would not sell for anywhere near £100 mil, the whole project is worth a lot more. Even if Ron dies, it is probably left to his son? There's no chance his son sells either with the pot of gold in the near distance.

I'd love to see Carl's plans, which he won't share with anyone... No pension fund, or any healthy minded person, would approve an investment that guarantees a loss of £1.4million a year in the 5th tier of English Football.

 

[WestyReturns]

You remember how long it took to agree terms/contracts with SBC? And you assume the Dellals want to sell/that would be a quick process? I’ve been involved in a number of aquisitions/similar deals and it’s months not weeks. However, let’s not prejudge and await more info.

I do understand you want it to be straightforward and it’s regrettable that desperately wanting something to be true doesn’t make it so….the world would be a happier place.

This may feel complex to you but having dealt with more complex situations worth far more than this whole project I can confirm what I said originally. Never mind kid

 

[rigsby]

It’s about 1200 at FF so getting towards 2000 including RH (from memory)

I think its 800+ at FF and 500+ at RH. Making a total of 1300 and something.

The whole project has been quoted as £400m, even up to £500m. As you know from your experience the value of the land would be about 33% of the end product for housing. So yes £100m would still leave a profit for Carl ( or anyone else).

The difference is a stadium must also be built along with training, facilities and the domes etc. Lets say that bit is £50m. I doubt that would be profit making unless we gained a couple of promotions.

Whats been forgotten in all the Ron threads is a new stadium and Championship football was Ron's original motive as an earner. 24 years on there is not the profit margin there was in the Sky boom years. Back then an owner could sell on in 5 years with huge returns.

Going forward then maybe Carl would have to make SUFC separate from the housing. Might make it more attractive to a pension fund.

 

[kentblues]

I think its 800+ at FF and 500+ at RH. Making a total of 1300 and something.

The whole project has been quoted as £400m, even up to £500m. As you know from your experience the value of the land would be about 33% of the end product for housing. So yes £100m would still leave a profit for Carl ( or anyone else).

The difference is a stadium must also be built along with training, facilities and the domes etc. Lets say that bit is £50m. I doubt that would be profit making unless we gained a couple of promotions.

Whats been forgotten in all the Ron threads is a new stadium and Championship football was Ron's original motive as an earner. 24 years on there is not the profit margin there was in the Sky boom years. Back then an owner could sell on in 5 years with huge returns.

Going forward then maybe Carl would have to make SUFC separate from the housing. Might make it more attractive to a pension fund.

According to the latest plans Fossets is now 1100. https://fossetts.co.uk/residential

In fact reads as 1100 plus the housing in the stadium plus the housing at the gatehouse/entrance of Fossets Way.