does university make you into a lefty

[Manchester Shrimper]

Lets just distance lefty from libertarian here
The term libertarian in a metaphysical or philosophical sense was first used by late-Enlightenment free-thinkers to refer to those who believed in free will, as opposed to determinism.

Those who experince more of other cultures and ideas generaly find themselves in a libertarin frame of mind rather then say a leftist /socialist frame work

In that case, no, then.

B.T.W. Free will v determinism? That's a bit deep for early-evening on a Saturday,

 

[A Century United]

In that case, no, then.

B.T.W. Free will v determinism? That's a bit deep for early-evening on a Saturday,

There once was a man who said Damn!
It is borne upon me that I am
An engine that moves
In predestinate grooves
I'm not even a bus - I'm a tram!

 

[Rob Noxious]

Nah just Google mate. I've still got all the 8 tracks so let's get this show on the road.

8 tracks?! Weren't they around for about a year or two, no more? Glad you're up for the gig, mate - think I'd prefer to have it on the Atlantic Coast rather than on the road, though...:)...and yes, I'm :offtopic:but living the broken dream again! :zzzzz:

 

[Rob Noxious]

Shrimpers one and all.

Indeed...a very broad church. Or it would be if I went to one. **** me, I do...Roots Hall!

 

[osymandus]

In that case, no, then.

B.T.W. Free will v determinism? That's a bit deep for early-evening on a Saturday,

There actually one and teh same thing , but its generally only possible to grasp that via a fusion of rational and metaphysical thinking .

 

[Nobby Snide]

Playing devils advocate haven't New Labour destroyed the working population. There's nigh on as many unemployed now as under Thatcher.

absolutely agreed...thats why they are 'new' labour and not THE labour party ( or the party of Labour)...

 

[Ron Manager]

Never went to Uni so can't really say. However you don't have to go to university to be a lefty, I've proved that.

 

[Nobby Snide]

<I think it all depends on your family/background.<

agreed, except my family always voted Tory, one thing I will NEVER do.

I have NEVER understood how working class people can vote conservative. Unfortunately the A13 corridor has too many little tory 'I'm all right jack' 'sons of Thatcher'. I understand and commend that you look after your family, but not to the detrement of your fellow man.

 

[Ron Manager]

I have NEVER understood how working class people can vote conservative. Unfortunately the A13 corridor has too many little tory 'I'm all right jack' 'sons of Thatcher'. I understand and commend that you look after your family, but not to the detrement of your fellow man.

My old man has always voted Tory. I just don't understand it though. Most of my values and beliefs I attribute directly to him. He runs his own business but does it the right way, genuinely looks after the blokes who work for him and does everything he can to provide employment for as many people as he possibly can. So why he's a life long Conservative I'll never fathom, when it comes to politics we just don't discuss it anymore. We've had a few family gatherings when I was younger be taken over by our 'discussions' at high volume so now I just leave it alone.

 

[shrimpled]

Very proud to be a 'lefty' and i think that has a lot to with my upbringing. Both my parents are right wing and my remaining grandparents further that way inclined. Cousins that have come back from Uni still vote left wing. Does setting up you're own business make you more of a righty? I'm not going to University instead setting up my own internet company so i sure as hell hope it don't!

 

[number11]

agreed, except my family always voted Tory, one thing I will NEVER do.

QUOTE]

I hear that quite a lot from self confessed 'lefties' and to be honest it's something I never understand. Where political parties shift their position (as per labour of last 10 years), have different members and conduct themselves differently, surely the more broad minded approach is to consider each party and policies on their merits at the time. I can understand a position of never wanting to vote for right wing policies but to rule out voting for a party absolutely seems quite set in their ways.

 

[steveo]

I have NEVER understood how working class people can vote conservative. Unfortunately the A13 corridor has too many little tory 'I'm all right jack' 'sons of Thatcher'.

Maybe because the Conservative party offered the "working Class" a chance to buy their own homes and have more of a say in how they wanted to run their lives.
It was generally the people who always wanted something for nothing that didnt like it. If you described the "im all right jacks" as "people who want to achieve something whilst not having to subsidise people that don't" you might be more accurate.

 

[Lord Football]

I left school at 16, so my left wingism cannot be attributed to any educational system. My leftwingism comes from the appalling years of Thatcherism, which even at 16 I knew was wrong. So I explored things like the Socialist Worker paper (which I still read from time to time despite not being in the SWP) and by talking to people who thought along the same lines as I do now.

 

[Nobby Snide]

Maybe because the Conservative party offered the "working Class" a chance to buy their own homes and have more of a say in how they wanted to run their lives.
It was generally the people who always wanted something for nothing that didnt like it. If you described the "im all right jacks" as "people who want to achieve something whilst not having to subsidise people that don't" you might be more accurate.

In recent times, you are correct, however, no matter how much the selling of the stock of old and in some cases, derelect council homes was a touch of pure genius, as it moved the cost away from the councils, who didnt do thier jobs in the first place, and transferred the cash into private hands...again, making people poorer, as they try and keep up with thier neighbours..ford mondeos, dado rails,sash curtains,etc.
Oh, and of course, the fact they never rebuilt any new homes has left us in an appaling state accross the country of overpriced houses that certain workers cannot afford. So, if you think that having your nice ex-council house 'which I made a packet on' is clever, whilst the social workers like nurses cannot even afford shared accommidation is clever, carry on voting blue, my son.

Historically, the conservatives were for the rich, looking after the rich, but life is not all about money, it's about your concience.

I take your point on how social trends shift and change, and that was how 'New Labour' steamrollered into power, the acceptable face of capitalism, and to me, they are not THE Labour party. One of thier 'strap-lines' was 'theres nothing wrong in making money, provided we ALL make money', ie, you can make your own choices, but let everyone be able to, and not just those lucky enough through whatever circumstance.

They also rode in on the back of the anti sleaze wave, which has drowned them at this elections and will do at the next general election. It opens the door foe a majopr swing to the right, and I fear it will even leapfrog the Blues and end up more extreem. I dont believe that the BNP will gain power, but I do believe they will become more influential within parlaiment as they are in certain councils already.

Personally, I dont see one party that I can feel any empathy or allegiances with, they are all drinking from the same trough...but I repeat, I would not and could not EVER vote Conservative. politics, as I say is about concience, and I just could not live with myself afterwards.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I would not and could not EVER vote Conservative. politics, as I say is about concience, and I just could not live with myself afterwards.

Not to mention hearing my old man turn in his grave. We may of had many, many differences growing up but he definitely made me the lefty I am today, and for that I'll owe him a massive debt of gratitude.

 

[steveo]

In recent times, you are correct, however, no matter how much the selling of the stock of old and in some cases, derelect council homes was a touch of pure genius, as it moved the cost away from the councils, who didnt do thier jobs in the first place, and transferred the cash into private hands...again, making people poorer, as they try and keep up with thier neighbours..ford mondeos, dado rails,sash curtains,etc.
Oh, and of course, the fact they never rebuilt any new homes has left us in an appaling state accross the country of overpriced houses that certain workers cannot afford. So, if you think that having your nice ex-council house 'which I made a packet on' is clever, whilst the social workers like nurses cannot even afford shared accommidation is clever, carry on voting blue, my son.

I would guess plenty of these people bought their council house, sold it and bought a better/bigger house so I doubt they are complaining. You seem to be suggesting that the council should provide a house for everyone, regardless of whether they work or not. These would then be subsidised by people who do have a conscience and do work hard, which is exactly what old labour was all about.

New Labour came into existence because the Labour politicians finally worked out that the majority of people in this country had had enough of Old Labour, and if they didnt change they would never get elected.

This Country has now had a Labour Government since 1997 and you are still blaming the Thatcher government which you claim "left us in an appaling state accross the country of overpriced houses that certain workers cannot afford". 12 years obviously hasnt been long enough to fix things then.

Also, I dont understand this: "and transferred the cash into private hands...again, making people poorer, as they try and keep up with thier neighbours". They dont have to buy things they cant afford do they? A bloke two doors along the road has got a lovely Porsche. I have always voted Conservative but I have managed to refrain from rushing out and buying one for myself.

 

[BalmainShrimper]

Does it really make any difference if you are a lefty or a tory these days? Frankly I can't tell the difference between the politicians of any of the main parties.

For me, regrettably, socialism died in May 1997.

Now politics seems to be ruled by the soundbite and slick doublespeak. The days of revolutionary policy, designed to improve health, wealth and happiness of the nation have all but disappeared.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Does it really make any difference if you are a lefty or a tory these days? Frankly I can't tell the difference between the politicians of any of the main parties.

For me, regrettably, socialism died in May 1997.

Now politics seems to be ruled by the soundbite and slick doublespeak. The days of revolutionary policy, designed to improve health, wealth and happiness of the nation have all but disappeared.

Socialism in the UK died long before May 1997. Possibly it ceased to be in 1983 when Michael Foot wrote the longest suicide note in history, otherwise the Labour Party Manifesto, which was rejected out of hand by the electorate. Subsequently Kinnock, notably without success in 1987 & 1992, and then Bliar attempted to find a platform that Labour could be elected on.

 

[OldBlueLady]

And I see Kinnock and his missus have earned themselves some 8 MILLION quid on the EU gravy train - champagne socialism anyone?

 

[Napster]

Blimey. I'm a right-wing *******. I hated all the yahs at uni, and all the left-leaning cosmopolitan thinking man's culture at Edinburgh. All I wanted to do was watch footie, drink ten pints of heavy and try and pull a nurse at Subway. When I became a father, my instincts have mellowed particularly on immigration, and even Europe. But I still believe in low taxes, getting people to work and encouraging enterprise.

I can understand why Essex and Kent are strong Tory areas, the % of business ownership, and the commuters who work in the City are typical Tories.