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Elvis Bwomono

OllieSteph44

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We would have been happy for it to go to a tribunal. Orient weren’t interested in paying anything for Elvis, and no one else was really sniffing around.

I don’t actually rate the kid, think he had an easier ride because he was “one of our own” as opposed to a signing, but I could see him back in these shores when their season ends.
Odd for a player no one seems to rate that the chairman tried to demand half a million pounds for him just after his second relegation with just an option year activated.

Clueless
 

OllieSteph44

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Finland is a three and a half hour flight (and 1500 miles) from Iceland so I'm not sure how relevant that is.
Oh yes because I was talking geography there.

Their leagues, their infrastructure and their cultures are similar. I also have a friend who I coached throughout his youth that has lived coached and played in Iceland since he left Uni and he says the same.
 

Bexley Blue

My butt's for sitting, not for kissing⭐
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Odd for a player no one seems to rate that the chairman tried to demand half a million pounds for him just after his second relegation with just an option year activated.

Clueless
Does that actually matter? He can demand half a million all he wants but anybody witg a brain would have known that we'd never have got that for him. I don't believe an option year was there to be activated, just that we held onto his registration until we got some dosh for him (and quite rightly). If anyone wanted him that badly, they'd have gladly gone to a tribunal knowing that SUFC would be lucky to get awarded a fifth of that, but at least it would have been something. Trouble is, nobody actually wanted to pay any money for him. Whilst I sympathise with a lot of what the players who were here went through across the Sol Campbell and Mark Molesley regimes, Elvis has been poorly advised and gone about this in the wrong way.
 

OllieSteph44

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Does that actually matter? He can demand half a million all he wants but anybody witg a brain would have known that we'd never have got that for him. I don't believe an option year was there to be activated, just that we held onto his registration until we got some dosh for him (and quite rightly). If anyone wanted him that badly, they'd have gladly gone to a tribunal knowing that SUFC would be lucky to get awarded a fifth of that, but at least it would have been something. Trouble is, nobody actually wanted to pay any money for him. Whilst I sympathise with a lot of what the players who were here went through across the Sol Campbell and Mark Molesley regimes, Elvis has been poorly advised and gone about this in the wrong way.
The option year was activated, which is done by all clubs for the precise reason of being able to command a fee for a player. A realistic one.

If you don’t activate the option year the player is officially released and all rights to compensation or fees are waived.

The option year must at the very least offer the same terms of the previous contracts….someone may want to find out what Ron offered….

You’ve missed the point entirely by saying “anybody with half a brain would have known that we’d never have got that for him”. It was an unfair valuation aimed deliberately at cornering a player into staying by pricing him out the market and making him un-buyable and a deliberate attempt to ruin any prospective move or any ambition the player had of staying in the EFL.

Remember the contracts signed by Elvis were not for Phil Brown and they were not with the knowledge he’d be playing in non league.

Notwithstanding any of the above or any of the legalities it was a shocking way to treat a player who’d turned down moves into the championship to stay loyal and try and prevent the club sliding firstly into league 2 and then again into non league, with someone’s ‘word’ not proving particularly reliable.
 

BoyWonder2

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Odd for a player no one seems to rate that the chairman tried to demand half a million pounds for him just after his second relegation with just an option year activated.

Clueless

So.

RM can demand what he wants for players here. He has done it for Bilel, as @Napster pointed out.

If anybody in this country wanted Elvis, they’d have had to pay money, it’s as simple as that. Orient didn’t want to pay a penny originally. We can demand £500k, they can offer what they want, and if we can’t settle on a few between us it goes to tribunal, then both parties will both still probably moan but it’s done and dusted.

As for not rating him, that’s my opinion, doesn’t mean I’m right or wrong. All players that play for us, especially when we’ve been lower leagues, have had problems with they games hence they are at this level. I felt his weaknesses outweighed his positives, but I still stand by my opinion.
 

OllieSteph44

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So.

RM can demand what he wants for players here. He has done it for Bilel, as @Napster pointed out.

If anybody in this country wanted Elvis, they’d have had to pay money, it’s as simple as that. Orient didn’t want to pay a penny originally. We can demand £500k, they can offer what they want, and if we can’t settle on a few between us it goes to tribunal, then both parties will both still probably moan but it’s done and dusted.

As for not rating him, that’s my opinion, doesn’t mean I’m right or wrong. All players that play for us, especially when we’ve been lower leagues, have had problems with they games hence they are at this level. I felt his weaknesses outweighed his positives, but I still stand by my opinion.
My point being that if you as you say don’t rate him, you can understand why half a million pounds is completely unrealistic and unfair and wasn’t done for any reason other than to prevent him leaving?
 

BoyWonder2

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My point being that if you as you say don’t rate him, you can understand why half a million pounds is completely unrealistic and unfair and wasn’t done for any reason other than to prevent him leaving?

It was done to maximise what we could get.

If Orient say, yeah that’s fine, everyone is happy.

Orient said no, and their counter offer was equally as insulting as us demanding £500k. Standard practice when negotiating.

Personally, I don’t see too much wrong in it. If Orient really wanted him, they’d have got him through tribunal. They obviously wasn’t as keen as Elvis assumed. He then bit his nose to spite his face and it cost him a year of his career.
 

BoyWonder2

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That went well.

It just cost Southend an extra £80-100,000 in wages to keep him tied up and now he’s gone anyway in less time than it can take to recover from an ACL.

True.

Equally, he has ****ed away a year of what is already a short career. As you mentioned, an ACL injury could take away another year from him.

You take the gamble.
 

OllieSteph44

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True.

Equally, he has ****ed away a year of what is already a short career. As you mentioned, an ACL injury could take away another year from him.

You take the gamble.
****ed away a year or had a real break, taken stock of what he wants from his life, been on full pay and stood by his principles despite his employers trying to force him into a corner through unethical behaviour which wouldn’t have been tolerated in any other industry.
 

brigg blue

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****ed away a year or had a real break, taken stock of what he wants from his life, been on full pay and stood by his principles despite his employers trying to force him into a corner through unethical behaviour which wouldn’t have been tolerated in any other industry.
How is it unethical behaviour? He was free to join another club if they were willing to pay a fee for him. Those are the rules of football, it was no surprise and I'm glad Ron wasn't bullied by an agent into missing out on some much needed income.

Elvis said in an interview he wanted to stay and help the side in the national league, that was a blatant lie as in reality he didn't even want to train with a team that continued to pay him whilst he couldn't get a move elsewhere
 

Bexley Blue

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The option year was activated, which is done by all clubs for the precise reason of being able to command a fee for a player. A realistic one.

If you don’t activate the option year the player is officially released and all rights to compensation or fees are waived.

The option year must at the very least offer the same terms of the previous contracts….someone may want to find out what Ron offered….
There was nothing to activate. The one and only option to extend for a year that was present in his contract had been activated the previous summer to extend his contract end date from 30 June 2020 to 30 June 2021. Once 30 June 2021 passed, he was out of contract. We were however entitled to hold onto his registration as long as we offered a contract extension of at least £1 higher than his previous contract, by virtue of the club being protected by EPPP compensation rules. The fact that the club offered £1 more showed that they knew he wasn't realistically going to stay and that they were just looking to ensure that they were eligible to receive compensation if somebody else signed him. Just because Ron Martin asked for £500k initially, doesn't mean he realistically thought he would get it. He was trying to get as much as he could of course, and nobody else in his position wouldnt have done so, but he didn't wield as much power over this situation as you're implying. The maximum we'd have been entitled to receive for him via tribunal was £125k. That's easily calculated with readily-available information online. If Orient wanted him enough and wouldn't have minded being ordered by tribunal to pay between £75k and £125k then all they had to do was sign Elvis to a contract and state their case in court to get the fee as low as they could. That's what Brentford did - we couldn't agree a fee with them for Daniel Bentley, so they signed him anyway whilst we were still in dispute because he was out of contract, and the tribunal settled the fee a couple of months later. The fee probably ended up being a third of the distance between what they initially tried to get away with paying and what we wanted. Orient could have done the same.

So ultimately, the issue isn't that Ron Martin asked for £500k despite not really having the power to ever expect or receive that. The real issue was that Orient and Elvis Bwomono wanted us to let him go for free. They had a ****ing cheek - we shouldn't have been expected to let him go for free or for pittance any more than Orient should have been expected to pay £500k compensation for him!

That went well.

It just cost Southend an extra £80-100,000 in wages to keep him tied up and now he’s gone anyway in less time than it can take to recover from an ACL.
This is the part of what you've said that I can partially agree with, but it probably went beyond the point of no return and both sides became stubborn to the point where they both cut off their nose to spite their face. Ultimately, Elvis and the club hacked each other off and felt that they were in the right, and both have dug in out of spite - we've cost him a year of his career after he and Orient tried to shaft us, and he has gone to Iceland to screw us out of the compensation we should be entitled to. Pretty unsavoury on both sides.

You and I have agreed on our distaste for Ron Martin many a times but we need a bit of balance and realism in this situation.
 
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I really don't understand where these wage figures come from that pop on here from time to time.

Does anyone really know what any player is earning - it is private & confidential information, no? If someone does know, then they should have the curtesy & intelligence to keep the information to themselves I would have thought.

If the salary is a guess then why not say so rather than put it forward as fact?
 

Mad Cyril

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There's a simple formula to being a pro footballer.

You either want to play, or you don't.
I appreciate everything you have done for the club but with respect Stan when it comes to players that could have achieved more you would probably make a lot of people's top ten.

For whatever reason Elvis has ****ed up and he will probably regret his actions for the rest of his life.
 
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Bexley Blue

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****ed away a year or had a real break, taken stock of what he wants from his life, been on full pay and stood by his principles despite his employers trying to force him into a corner through unethical behaviour which wouldn’t have been tolerated in any other industry.
I always had you down as so much more balanced than this.

Elvis feels like he was forced into a corner by SUFC.

SUFC feels like they were forced into a corner by Elvis, his agent and Orient.

Elvis stuck to his principles.

SUFC stuck to their principles.

There is no black-and-white here. It was a stand-off and neither party has covered themselves in glory. To make Elvis out to be a victim, though, isn't right in my view, no matter how many other things I'll gladly blame Ron Martin for.
 

OllieSteph44

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The compensation packages aren’t as clear cut as you make out. They are for academy players but once a player is a full pro they take far more into account than time spent at a club and age and wont be found with a simple online calculation. Which is precisely why we saw players like Kenny Coker appearing on match days shortly before moving on to premier league clubs. The tribunals are a lottery and it’s just possible Orient or any other club didn’t fancy paying what they were ordered to and it all blowing up in their faces.

It’s also quite possible Ron was refusing to budge an inch from his half a mill valuation despite knowing it wasn’t going to be met…I wonder why?

Also, people are paying no attention ruin whatsoever to any promises made to Elvis in respect of turning down other suitors mid season…..in return for what? Seeing out the season? Staying until January the following season? Staying to try and retain league status? All that failed and he was still unable to leave…

Finally…..and I’m not going into any thing that has taken place…..

Anyone remember the public outcry at the completely insulting nature of Arsene Wenger offering £50,000,001 to Liverpool to activate the £50,000,000 buy out clause for Luis Suarez…… It was deemed an insult and it angered everyone including media and fans not to mention Liverpool Football Club……it really is an insulting thing to do.

Maybe if Ron genuinely wanted Elvis to stay another year he should’ve have offered him what he thought a footballer valued at half million pound should earn and who knows maybe none of this would’ve happened….
 
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