Emmanuel Osadebe and Theo Vassell unable to be registered due to EFL Embargo?

[NZamba Legend]

its ok for Bolton to not play games .its also ok for Macclesfield to not only pay there players also have there ground deemed unsafe for a match .But have there penaltys drag on and on .But our club was late paying the players once and until the issue is sorted we cant bring in two players who want to play for us .Stink of double standards .

We get treated like chumps but actually have a much prouder history than Macclesfield or Bolton. Bolton's best ever player was Michael Ricketts and he couldn't make it at Southend because he was too fat. Puts things in perspective.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

We get treated like chumps but actually have a much prouder history than Macclesfield or Bolton. Bolton's best ever player was Michael Ricketts and he couldn't make it at Southend because he was too fat. Puts things in perspective.

Er a certain Nat Lofthouse

 

[wivs]

Er a certain Nat Lofthouse

Er a certain Billy Best. ?

 

[londonblue]

Interesting that Ron fires the groundsman for not getting a pitch playable but the Head of Finance gets away with not modelling that the payroll can’t be met until it’s too late.

I bet he did forecast. I bet Ron tried to play the system once more and lost.

 

[kentblues]

Sorry if this has been already covered but my understanding is that under current EFL rules (for this year) we cannot be docked points for the non-payment of wages. Not an available sanction.

Macclesfield for example were docked 6 points but it was not the non-payment part of their punishment but failing to fulfil a fixture.

It might be that we can be prevented from registering players (although I think this is disputed above). But wouldn't it sum up the utterly broken organisation that the EFL is if, having allowed the two players to exit their current contracts, they then prevent them from signing new ones and earning a living? Surely unlikely even for the numpties at the EFL?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Sorry if this has been already covered but my understanding is that under current EFL rules (for this year) we cannot be docked points for the non-payment of wages. Not an available sanction.

Macclesfield for example were docked 6 points but it was not the non-payment part of their punishment but failing to fulfil a fixture.

It might be that we can be prevented from registering players (although I think this is disputed above). But wouldn't it sum up the utterly broken organisation that the EFL is if, having allowed the two players to exit their current contracts, they then prevent them from signing new ones and earning a living? Surely unlikely even for the numpties at the EFL?

The club has been charged with misconduct. The punishments the League can impose are set out in regulation 92 and include at

92.2.7 order a deduction of points

.....

92.2.11 impose an embargo on registration of Players;


92.2.12 order any other sanction as the Disciplinary Commission may think fit; and


92.2.13 order that interest be payable on any sums awarded under this Regulation for such period and at such rates as the Disciplinary Commission thinks fit.


92.3 These sanctions may be imposed immediately or may be deferred or suspended for such period and on such terms as the Disciplinary Commission shall decide.

 

[MilkeySUFC]

The club has been charged with misconduct. The punishments the League can impose are set out in regulation 92 and include at

92.2.7 order a deduction of points

.....

92.2.11 impose an embargo on registration of Players;


92.2.12 order any other sanction as the Disciplinary Commission may think fit; and


92.2.13 order that interest be payable on any sums awarded under this Regulation for such period and at such rates as the Disciplinary Commission thinks fit.


92.3 These sanctions may be imposed immediately or may be deferred or suspended for such period and on such terms as the Disciplinary Commission shall decide.

Has the club been found guilty of the offence? Or are we being punushed with 92.2.11 until they decide whether we're guilty AND then hand out sentence?

 

[shrimperian]

Bolton's best ever player was Michael Ricketts

I would have to take issue with this statement.....JJ Ococha, Gary Speed, Fabrice Muamba, Youri Djorkaef, Nathan Blake, Ivan Campo, Gudni Bergsson, El Hadji Diouf, Fernando Hierro, Nicholas Anelka, Kevin Davies to name a few just of the last couple of decades that would be considered better than Ricketts.......

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Has the club been found guilty of the offence? Or are we being punushed with 92.2.11 until they decide whether we're guilty AND then hand out sentence?

I believe our current transfer embargo is likely to be under regulation 51.2.3 or 53.1 not 92.

Reference to regulation 92 was in respect of what additional punishments could be applied as kent blues said we couldn't have points deducted when that's not the case.

Incidentally 51.6 is worth reading. It's likely to be the case that we won't be allowed to pay any transfer or loan fees until the end of next season.

51.6 Without prejudice to any other powers or restrictions set out in these Regulations or as may be ordered by a Disciplinary Commission, where any Club defaults on payment of any amounts:


51.6.1 due to any other Club (or club) (including but not limited to any Transfer Fee, Compensation Fee, Loan Fee, other contributions due pursuant to the terms of any Temporary Loan Transfer, or any subsequent payments which become due under the terms of any original transfer(s), ticket monies, or other payments pursuant to the terms of any other agreement); and/or


51.6.2 covered by Article 48.1.5 (football creditor claims of full time or former full time employees for arrears of remuneration due up to the date of termination of employment),


for a period of 30 days (whether one default of 30 days, or a number of individual defaults which when taken together amount to 30 days) or more in any 12 month period (1 July to 30 June) (‘Persistent Default’) then that Club shall not be permitted to pay or commit to pay any Transfer Fee, Compensation Fee or Loan Fee or any other form of payment (other than a sell on fee) in respect of the registration of any Player during the period:


(a) commencing on the date on which the Persistent Default occurred; and


(b) ending at the end of the next following Season.


Guidance


The EFL monitors overdue payables in respect of Transfer / Compensation / Loan Fees, but not other amounts payable as between Clubs (and clubs). Accordingly, the EFL will act on the basis of complaint in respect of matters such as loan wages, ticket monies, and other payments.


Unless otherwise specified in writing in the loan agreement, the EFL will work on the principle that loan wages are due no later than 14 days from the issuing of an invoice.


Clubs are encouraged to ensure that loan agreements include clear provisions regarding the dates on which loan wages will be invoiced and/or payable, to ensure that the provisions of this Regulation can be applied appropriately in the event of default.


Examples of what are considered to be ‘other agreements’ in Regulation 51.6.1 could include compensation agreements relating to managers / coaching staff.


Finally, in the context of default in payment of wages to employees, the number of days of arrears will not ordinarily be multiplied by the number of employees affected.

 

[kentblues]

The club has been charged with misconduct. The punishments the League can impose are set out in regulation 92 and include at

92.2.7 order a deduction of points

.....

92.2.11 impose an embargo on registration of Players;


92.2.12 order any other sanction as the Disciplinary Commission may think fit; and


92.2.13 order that interest be payable on any sums awarded under this Regulation for such period and at such rates as the Disciplinary Commission thinks fit.


92.3 These sanctions may be imposed immediately or may be deferred or suspended for such period and on such terms as the Disciplinary Commission shall decide.

This is a very interesting read on the subject
You are right they could I think deduct points but I think they have only tried to do so where non-fulfilment of a fixture has been part of the "rap". But Bolton's "special treatment" has brought that open to appeal. However, its appears "Bolton were among a lengthy list of EFL clubs to fail to pay their players on time in 2019 and none lost points for doing so." So even allowing for the fact that we are not open to the special EFL treatment awarded to larger clubs it seems very unlikely we would go straight to the most severe punishment.

"https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...sum-up-the-worrying-mess-in-the-efl-lkvj8bzhq

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

This is a very interesting read on the subject
You are right they could I think deduct points but I think they have only tried to do so where non-fulfilment of a fixture has been part of the "rap". But Bolton's "special treatment" has brought that open to appeal. However, its appears "Bolton were among a lengthy list of EFL clubs to fail to pay their players on time in 2019 and none lost points for doing so." So even allowing for the fact that we are not open to the special EFL treatment awarded to larger clubs it seems very unlikely we would go straight to the most severe punishment.

"https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...sum-up-the-worrying-mess-in-the-efl-lkvj8bzhq

I'd have thought we'd be prime candidates for a points deduction this year.

If the League wants to send a message (and I believe they do) then they would pick on us rather than piling on Macclesfield and Bolton, who they've already deducted points from and for whom any additional punishment would be seen as piling onto a club once they're already on the ropes.

This is something the FL are clearly keen to clamp down on post Bury and we're a soft target as we're basically already down so Ron would only put up a token fight, which would allow them to set a precedent. If on the other hand they tried to impose a points deduction for next season Ron would no doubt lose his **** and threaten to sue.

That said, any punishment is more likely to be suspended than immediate.

 

[Strykr]

I would have to take issue with this statement.....JJ Ococha, Gary Speed, Fabrice Muamba, Youri Djorkaef, Nathan Blake, Ivan Campo, Gudni Bergsson, El Hadji Diouf, Fernando Hierro, Nicholas Anelka, Kevin Davies to name a few just of the last couple of decades that would be considered better than Ricketts.......

Pretty sure nzamba was being ironic. Ricketts would have thrashed that lot in a pie eating contest tho.

 

[Flinty]

So perhaps this now makes sense of the " I don't know comments" from Sol....he really doesn't know what the situation is and nobody is sure or understands

 

[MK Shrimper]

You know we’ll eventually sign these two and they’ll be toilet ?

 

[Strykr]

You know we’ll eventually sign these two and they’ll be toilet ?

It'll be time for sol to be judged for sure.

 

[kentblues]

I'd have thought we'd be prime candidates for a points deduction this year.

If the League wants to send a message (and I believe they do) then they would pick on us rather than piling on Macclesfield and Bolton, who they've already deducted points from and for whom any additional punishment would be seen as piling onto a club once they're already on the ropes.

This is something the FL are clearly keen to clamp down on post Bury and we're a soft target as we're basically already down so Ron would only put up a token fight, which would allow them to set a precedent. If on the other hand they tried to impose a points deduction for next season Ron would no doubt lose his **** and threaten to sue.

That said, any punishment is more likely to be suspended than immediate.

If they are going to deduct points for merely being late paying wages due to cash flow then as per the article they will be docking points all over the place in the EFL as there are numerous offenders.

 

[NZamba Legend]

I would have to take issue with this statement.....JJ Ococha, Gary Speed, Fabrice Muamba, Youri Djorkaef, Nathan Blake, Ivan Campo, Gudni Bergsson, El Hadji Diouf, Fernando Hierro, Nicholas Anelka, Kevin Davies to name a few just of the last couple of decades that would be considered better than Ricketts.......

For every Fernando Hierro I'll give you a Gary Deegan

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

If they are going to deduct points for merely being late paying wages due to cash flow then as per the article they will be docking points all over the place in the EFL as there are numerous offenders.

Whilst there may be plenty of transgressors at the moment, once teams start having points deducted for repeat offending chairmen will realise that signing a striker may win them an extra 2 points but busting their budget will cost them even more.

 

[kentblues]

Whilst there may be plenty of transgressors at the moment, once teams start having points deducted for repeat offending chairmen will realise that signing a striker may win them an extra 2 points but busting their budget will cost them even more.

True but it is mixing two problems. Many of the clubs (in fact most) that miss some payments are running average or less than average player budgets. They are trying to survive in a financial climate that the EFL are in no small part responsible for.

So, dependent on the scenario that applies to the club they are penalising, more often than not the EFL will simply make worse an already challenging financial situation. Of course if the EFL somehow forced all EFL clubs to live within their means, when 90% don't, then playing budgets will be decimated. No doubt the PFA would become very excited at that prospect.

So it will be very interesting to see how the EFL work out who is being reckless in the pursuit of promotion, and signing players with the likelihood or intent of not paying them if success does not follow, verses the clubs who are honestly trying to pay their way and their staff but finding it tough (maybe on a temporary basis).

EFL's track record in being able to make such determinations in a fair and transparent manner is I would suggest pretty shocking.

It will also be interesting to see, if this applied ruthlessly, how well it goes down with the fans when relegation and promotion is as much decided by who the EFL chooses to dock points and how many, as performance on the pitch.

FWIW I expect a giant fudge, loads of words and little or no action..

 

[GBJ]

You know we’ll eventually sign these two and they’ll be toilet ?

It’s absolutely nailed on.