England v Ukraine

[WhiteNoise]

Southgate is all about the vibes. Remember where we were before him? our national team was a shambles and Southgate has completely transformed everything behind the scenes, including with the U21s and below. That's not to say he's beyond criticism regarding squad selections or our attacking setup, but a final and a semi final I'd argue is punching above our weight, and we have a foundation that we can build upon going forward.

Having said all that, It's crazy that Sterling wasn't picked on form, and playing Henderson where Maddison should be, and Maddison where Rashford or maybe Sterling should be, is crazy. We don't need a double pivot all the time, Rice can play the role on his own at times.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

I don't really get the whole 'favourites' thing. It's a reflection of how dearth the options are outside the squad.

I like the idea of the Rice, Bellingham and Foden trio on paper but Foden is more effective in an attacking role - think he plays left in a front three for Man City - and I believe Real Madrid are playing Bellingham as a number 10; he's already scored five this season.

I'm not dismissing the idea but I still have nightmares about good old Sven deciding to play Scholes on the left and Gerrard and Lampard together in CM just to shoehorn the best players into the team. An absolute disaster with all three out of position. Maybe that's why I'm more of a fan of GS than most. After all, we were a penalty shoot-out away from actually winning the last Euros. Don't know why people seem to dismiss that.

Out of curiosity, why do you think we need a proper RW? Do you not rate Saka?

Granted Southgate doesn't have a huge number of options because of the lack of English players playing regularly in the Prem, and Maguire maybe wouldn't have been in the squad if Stones and/or Mings were fit. But surely players like Ward-Prowse, Bowen, Gibbs-White deserve to be in the squad ahead of players like Phillips who's barely kicked a ball for Man City. I know there has to be a balance between picking players on form and picking players who have international experience and have played together, but I just think his loyalty to some has gone too far.

I do rate Saka but he's left-footed and tends to cut inside a lot. Just think we could do with another option there as most of our wide players are left-footed or prefer playing on the left. It's a shame Sancho has been such a flop at United.

I think Southgate has done a lot of good things with this England team and I like the guy, but I just feel we're in danger of wasting another 'golden generation'. He comes up short in the big games. In the Euro final against Italy he tried to defend a 1-0 lead for like 80 minutes, Mancini made changes that changed the game and then Southgate brings on players just for penalties which backfired. And against France in the World Cup semi, he again made substitutions too late. Both of them were missed opportunities. I imagine Euro 2024 will be his last tournament.

 

[southendkid]

Good point. I just think GS is in an awkward position because as good as the options are going forward, defensively we’re short, which is why sometimes he has to be a bit conservative in our team selection. If we were blessed with the defence SVE had at his disposal we’d win the Euros easily.

Defensive football also tends to work better than attacking football in international football because the players only get a couple of weeks together a year. Look at Germany, they've just sacked the manager that won the champions league with Bayern Munich in 2020, the kind of football that he had Bayern playing is nearly impossible to implement well in an international team and they ended up playing awful football because of it.

 

[Realist]

Every recent tournament on here Southgate gets rinsed and yet he took us to the last Euros final. Maybe he doesn't always select players that popular opinion demands, and maybe he stays loyal to those that have served him well, but maybe we should wait and see where we end up in the current Euros competition before writing him off.

He has had three tournaments already though. Does he really deserve a fourth ?

 

[RHB]

He has had three tournaments already though. Does he really deserve a fourth ?

Yep, he does, and he's got one. That's not just my view, the FA agree with me.

 

[The Original Tribal Chief]

I don't like Southgate on a personal level but his results as England manager have been excellent. A final, a semi-final and a quarter-final in the last 3 big tournaments is not to be sniffed at. I think we should play more expressively and Henderson and Maguire should be nowhere near this team, but Southgate deserves to go out on his terms. As for the numpty 'we've got no chance of winning' posts - behave yourself. We are and should be one of the favourites. Ask any other European country if they fancy playing us.

 

[Cricko]

The year is 2060. Gareth Southgate is still England manager. Harry Maguire and Jordan Henderson are still starting.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Granted Southgate doesn't have a huge number of options because of the lack of English players playing regularly in the Prem, and Maguire maybe wouldn't have been in the squad if Stones and/or Mings were fit. But surely players like Ward-Prowse, Bowen, Gibbs-White deserve to be in the squad ahead of players like Phillips who's barely kicked a ball for Man City. I know there has to be a balance between picking players on form and picking players who have international experience and have played together, but I just think his loyalty to some has gone too far.

I do rate Saka but he's left-footed and tends to cut inside a lot. Just think we could do with another option there as most of our wide players are left-footed or prefer playing on the left. It's a shame Sancho has been such a flop at United.

I think Southgate has done a lot of good things with this England team and I like the guy, but I just feel we're in danger of wasting another 'golden generation'. He comes up short in the big games. In the Euro final against Italy he tried to defend a 1-0 lead for like 80 minutes, Mancini made changes that changed the game and then Southgate brings on players just for penalties which backfired. And against France in the World Cup semi, he again made substitutions too late. Both of them were missed opportunities. I imagine Euro 2024 will be his last tournament.

Complaining about players being in the squad but don’t play seems a bit of a stretch.

I can defintely see the advantage of picking experienced internationals as squad players even if they are out of favour at their parent clubs as International managers have such little time to work with players. You will want to concentrate the little coaching time you have with the starting XI and impact players off the bench. It’s preferable to have an inexperienced player who can slot in at late notice if an injury arises and know how you are setting up - it’s also easier for the existing players who are already familiar with that player. There’s room for that and bringing through up and genuinely up and coming young players. Ward-Prowse turns 29 in a few weeks’ time. He isn’t one for the future. Bowen turns 27 this year and looked short of the necessary quality in his appearances to date. They aren’t players particularly worth investing in when they are fringe talents with a short shelf life at the highest level. Gibbs-White has more long term potential but he wouldn’t play the role Phillips is covering so that’s not comparing like to like.

Southgate has been superb at promoting young players throughout his regime. Saka turned 22 this month but seems like a veteran. Jude Bellingham is a regular at 20. Rice is only 24. Rashford was another who was playing when precociously young. The likes of Sancho, Hudson-Odoi have been chucked in when incredibly raw. Southgate hasn’t shied away from promoting young players if they are good enough.

What he hasn’t done is quickly promote the plodders: the players who have to be on the very top of their game to be good enough and if their form drops a notch they won’t be up to it. Players who have already performed for him for several years at this level are probably better bets than those guys.

 

[Realist]

Yep, he does, and he's got one. That's not just my view, the FA agree with me.

There is zero progress though. If anything looks like the ceiling has been fully reached with the current squad he selects along with the tactics he decides to go with. I would love to know why you think he deserves another tournament after the World Cup exit???

 

[RHB]

There is zero progress though. If anything looks like the ceiling has been fully reached with the current squad he selects along with the tactics he decides to go with. I would love to know why you think he deserves another tournament after the World Cup exit???

Southgate has the most major tournament wins (12, including penalty shootouts) of any England head coach or manager and his six knockout wins in three major tournaments are as many as England had in 48 years prior. That feels like progress to me.

As for what others feel about the England team, I would point you to the latest victory against the Scots. Graeme Souness and Steve Clarke spoke glowingly about the quality of the England side and how they were light years ahead of the Scottish team. That praise has to be earned, especially from Souness. How well will we do in the next Euros final if we qualify? I don't know yet, but with Jude Bellingham maturing into a world class performer, I reckon we have a good chance of going one step further. You don't have to agree with me, but that's what I reckon.