EURO 2021 FINAL - Italy v England. Sunday 11th July 2021 20:00.

[geoffmundo]

To put it in to context Englands/Southgate's achievement at these Euros, before we beat Germany (and then Ukraine and Denmark) we had only won one knockout game at a Euro Championship finals (and that was against Spain and with penalties in 96) since the first tournament in 1968.

 

[Tribal Chief]

Not sure about that. For example, I thought Pickford had a fantastic tournament but for me was edged out by Italy's Donnarulla, who was named player of the tournament, which was a surprise. His command of the box was superb and he made some top saves as well.

Equally I thought Stones and Maguire had great tournaments but the beasts of Chiellini and Bonucci were marginally better.

Rice and Phillips had great tournaments but were they able to dictate the game like Giorginio?

Further forward Italy had Chiesa, Insigne and Immobile, all of whom were unplayable at times and IMO were equal to Kane, Sterling and Mount.

Shaw was arguably England's best player and the best left-back in the tournament once Spinazzola was cruelly sidelined.

So there's not much of a difference and that was reflected in the result.

Just out of curiosity, who would you have as GS's successor if he resigns? I'm struggling to come up with anyone beyond Eddie Howe, Brendan Rogers or Graham Potter.

I disagree about the qualities of the respective squads, and I think I would be proven correct if we judged how much each squad was deemed to be worth in the transfer market.

I wouldn't have any of the three you have named - I'd go for Lampard or Gerrard.

 

[EastStandBlue]

That's a lot of words to say that you think second best is good enough and that those (like me) who think Southgate hasn't got what it takes need to 'improve'. Man for man, the players that England had at their disposal were superior to those available to Mancini's Italy, but caution and inflexibility meant that the statistical report of the game looked like Italy had been playing San Marino. You talk about Southgate developing as a coach, and that would be fine, if he were a club manager (interesting that no big clubs have ever been interested in him as a manager). But you only get one shot at this every two years, and you have to be ready when those opportunities come. In 2018 and in 2021, England had a fortuitous route to a final laid out as other big countries fluffed their lines, and Southgate has been hugely fortunate to never be the recipient of cruel luck like the hand of God or the outrageous Lampard goal in 2010 that wasn't given. We should have beaten Croatia and we should have beaten Italy and we didn't, and that's not good enough. So we can wait 18 months and hope Southgate has learned some lessons, and if he hasn't, there's always 2024, right? England have a real window of opportunity now, as other countries are retooling and rebuilding, it would be a shame to waste it.

That's pretty questionable, no? Donnarumma's arguably the best goalkeeper in the world, Chiellini and Bonucci are serial winners and Jorginho and Veratti are two of the most accomplished central midfielders in Europe. England do have the more superior attacking players, definitely, and I'd wholeheartedly agree that Southgate is a more pragmatic coach than he needs to be on occasion. But pragmatism has been proven to win football tournaments.

And besides, if simply having superior players won you international tournaments, then France could've probably won this European Championships with their bench... But Deschamps failed to cultivate any sense of togetherness within the squad, fractured the camp and then got a major decision completely wrong by switching to a back five against Switzerland. Southgate meanwhile has created a fantastic mentality within the camp and I'd say got the majority of his decisions correct this year.

We could have beaten Croatia in 2018 were the core of the squad not completely spent. Southgate and the staff learned from that, prepared more and managed the load more effectively. The result is we went one further and got to a final.

As for 2024, I think you'll have your wish regardless of the outcome in Qatar.

 

[pottster]

During either the 2nd half, or extra time, something happened which caused the game to be stopped for a couple of mins.
TV wouldn't show what was going on, streaker, protest or what-ever.
Did you see what was going on, & what was it?.

A muppet ran on the pitch and gave the stewards the run around, wd were in the ascendancy and killed our momentum temporarily

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

A muppet ran on the pitch and gave the stewards the run around, wd were in the ascendancy and killed our momentum temporarily

Thanks for your reply, as they say 'there's one born every minute'?. Total imbecile or what?.

 

[Danshrimper]

I disagree about the qualities of the respective squads, and I think I would be proven correct if we judged how much each squad was deemed to be worth in the transfer market.

I wouldn't have any of the three you have named - I'd go for Lampard or Gerrard.

What have Lampard and Gerrard achieved as managers to suggest they’d be any better than Southgate?

 

[Tribal Chief]

What have Lampard and Gerrard achieved as managers to suggest they’d be any better than Southgate?

They have achieved more as club managers than Southgate ever did and were both world class players who will be respected by the players. I think they like Gareth, but do they respect him?

 

[Tampa Blue]

'Risk must be at the heart for Southgate to end glorious failures'

After losing the Euro 2020 final on penalties to Italy, BBC Sport's Phil McNulty looks at how manager Gareth Southgate can take England to the next step.

www.bbc.co.uk

This article says it all

 

[Strykr]

They have achieved more as club managers than Southgate ever did and were both world class players who will be respected by the players. I think they like Gareth, but do they respect him?

I see absolutely no evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

[Maldon Shrimper]

England management and players will learn alot from this tournament especially how the final was lost.Italy missed qualifying for the last World Cup regrouped and haven't lost for 30 odd games.Over the 120 minutes Italy were the better side as the stats state if England had got a second goal when on top we would have won.We lost to the best side in the tournament we need to look at the postitives regroup and move on.

 

[Kris]

They have achieved more as club managers than Southgate ever did and were both world class players who will be respected by the players. I think they like Gareth, but do they respect him?

Why wouldn't they? He's led his team to two semi-finals and a final.

Lampard and Gerrard haven't proved themselves as club managers yet. Lampard failed to get promotion with Derby and was sacked by Chelsea with the club well outside the Champions League. Gerrard, despite his success in Scotland, realistically needs to manage in the Premier League to be considered. He'll probably be the next Liverpool manager so that will be a marker.

Both also underachieved as players for England and both missed penalties in shoot-outs.

'Risk must be at the heart for Southgate to end glorious failures'

After losing the Euro 2020 final on penalties to Italy, BBC Sport's Phil McNulty looks at how manager Gareth Southgate can take England to the next step.

www.bbc.co.uk

This article says it all

Indeed. While improvements are still needed, there were still many positives and Southgate is second only to Sir Alf Ramsay in terms of achievements as England manager. Glass half full everyone.

England management and players will learn alot from this tournament especially how the final was lost.Italy missed qualifying for the last World Cup regrouped and haven't lost for 30 odd games.Over the 120 minutes Italy were the better side as the stats state if England had got a second goal when on top we would have won.We lost to the best side in the tournament we need to look at the postitives regroup and move on.

This.

 

[stewart]

Southgate has been anti-Grealish throughout, he and he alone should take the blame for that result last night. We've played with a defensive set up throughout, with an unbelievable 7 outfield defensive players starting last night in a game we had to win to win the competition.

To have scored as early as we did was a bit unfortunate as we then sat back on that rather than try to create, Mount wasn't played in the role he does at Chelsea and consequently hasn't exactly set the world on fire in his England role. Game was calling out for the inventiveness of Grealish or Foden.

Our hero last night was Pickford, he did what you hope your goalkeeper is going to do in saving two penalties, one of which was Italy's Mr 100% in Jorginho. The penalty takers were wrong, to have had the two young players after each other was wrong, and I don't understand why Grealish, who takes them for Villa, wasn't in our first five takers? Or Sterling, for that matter. Rashford has rarely produced in an England shirt, I'd have rather seen Calvert-Lewin come on as a penalty taker. Rashford's penalty was terrible.

Italy deserve some credit for marking Sterling out of the game, he should have been oiked off as they had him pinned down throughout. Dirty gits though as usual, both Chielini and Jorginho should have had red cards in my opinion. Ref was weak in that respect. Have to say our defence gave Immobile the same treatment as Sterling, so credit to them.

Hugely disappointing end to a tournament.

And it didnt take Mancini long before he substituted Immobile

 

[stewart]

Question : When you have so many top class attacking players ,why would you choose a defensive strategy

 

[graingerroad54]

Question : When you have so many top class attacking players ,why would you choose a defensive strategy

Because GS was a defender and will always have a defensive mindset

 

[Flinty]

I’m guessing because our defence was our weak point so he shored that up and made us difficult to beat knowing / hoping that the quality of our attack would score from the limited opportunities given to them. Had we a poor attack I’m guessing it may have been a different philosophy

 

[pottster]

England have been in the wilderness for the last twenty years or so. When we lost to Iceland in euro 16 and then tell me we would have a semi final in the world cup and final in the euro I wouldn't believe you. We've come a long way since those bad days. Italy were good, but we held or own against them. It came down to penalties which could have gone either way.

 

[Barling Magna]

They have achieved more as club managers than Southgate ever did and were both world class players who will be respected by the players. I think they like Gareth, but do they respect him?

It's strange that you are so anti Southgate when he has become so popular here in England. I think you may be at a disadvantage by being in the USA during the tournament. Had you been here you would appreciate the all pervading nature of England's progress through the tournament. It became the main news item on tv and radio, almost to the exclusion of anything else. All the newspapers, including the broadsheets, were covering their front pages with England players and Southgate. Long and detailed articles were published about Southgate's leadership style having much to teach Boris Johnson, Keir Starmer and other government and shadow ministers, not least about honesty, integrity and creating team spurit. Southgate's articulate, inclusive and passionate open letter to the team and the English people before the first match was quoted throughout the media. His tactical and strategic decisions as a manager were praised. In short, Southgate has become an icon for our times. It would be impossible to fully appreciate this from overseas.

Whilst the hero worship is clearly over the top there is no doubt that Southgate has succeeded in creating a successful, inclusive and very positive team whose influence has spread far beyond the realm of football into wider English society. I don't believe that any other English manager could have been such a success as a manager of England in the Euros or as that wider icon.

 

[Mad Cyril]

They have achieved more as club managers than Southgate ever did and were both world class players who will be respected by the players. I think they like Gareth, but do they respect him?

Lampard and Gerrard achieved F-all as England players.

It is my belief that England have taken a moneyball approach and that the teams, tactics and substitutions are selected by committee/consensus and justified by stats.

In any case England progressed deeper into a tournament than they have managed for 55 years and I am glad to see players selected on their effectiveness rather than reputation or the club they play for.

A few tweaks and England have a real chance of winning a tournament over the next few years.

 

[ozzie]

When we played Germany,we were playing a German team in turmoil,in maybe the worst crisis they have ever had.
Had just lost 6 maybe 7 nil to Spain.Manager sacked,the fans/press wanting him gone before the Euros.Lucky to get out of their group...and now its coming out here in the press how players went against each other and the manager etc...in turmoil.
Nobody knows how pleased i was/am that we beat them.
And we did,but if we could not have beaten this team at this time/crisis...at Wembley,when would we.
THe fans have really turned against the German team,big time.So much so,that they have got someone in to (tv-papers etc) try and change the fans opinions about their national team..worried.
Thats after only 7 years of hurt!!Seven years ago world champs..FFS..what would they be like after 55 and still counting.
My mate phone me up again yesterday..very happy as he told me that this, not that good,cheating England team,from that virus full country lost.
Rather harsh and coming from a German about cheating!!
He also asked if i had stopped crying..told him no...it will take a while.
Sadly,if i live another 12 years i will not see England have a better chance than last sunday.sadly,not even in a final

 

[Kenny]

My earliest memory of supporting England was the Hand of God in '86 and it's been a rollercoaster ride of anguish and disappointment ever since then, but it makes a nice distraction from following Southend and the only time I get to cheer on Premiership players.

Getting thrashed by Germany in 2010, we knew the next few years were likely to be miserable as some big names were retiring and the well was looking empty for the future. Little did we know Big Sam inadvertently did us all a favour by drinking that big pint of wine, Gareth got a lot of mileage out of that 2018 squad with expectations low, still relying on the likes of Ashley Young, Fabian Delph and Eric Dier.

I find this current squad more likeable than any squad in years, no John Terry, No Lampard-Gerrard conundrum, No Rooney, No Wags sideshow!, No Liverpool-Man Utd cliques. Southgate has a system that he sticks to rather than trying to shoehorn in too many players and egos all at once.

He's now been able to blood in some exciting young players for this campaign who should have a bit more experience for Qatar next November. I also like how he's made England more like a "club" and made it a bit more open on access. I think Southgate is one of those breed of coaches who is better off as a National coach than as a day to day club manager. I would say let Gareth have a run at Qatar because I can't see another British coach that would be interested unless Brendan Rodgers could be tempted?

Roll on Hungary, at what will surely be a raucous Puskas arena in September!