Faith Schools

[pickledseal]

Apparently there is to be a new report out on Monday trying to persuade Ed Balls to get rid of faith schools (including Catholic, CoE as well as Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, and even Greek Orthodox and Seventh Day Adventist).

BBC Radio Essex have asked me to briefly speak on their Sunday morning show argueing the case FOR faith schools - given I am an RE teacher working in a Catholic school! (and they had my number as I spoke before about my time in Ethiopia)

Previous governments have been in favour, with David Blunkett famously saying he wanted to "bottle" the ethos of faith schools. Ed Balls says faith schools could raise standards in poorer areas, which may be through multi-faith academies. They don't seem to be going anywhere fast...

HOWEVER, the National Secular Society claims 80% of the population disapprove of faith schools!

Obviously I am looking for arguements supporting faith schools for my slot on Sunday but thought I'd hear what the pub had to say on the matter ;)

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

Not in favour to be honest, assuming you mean single faith schools. even with the best will in the world a school of a particular faith will tend to favour that beliefs teachings over another.

Out of interest, as an RE teacher, what do you teach about, say, Islam, Hinduism, Bhuddism, or Wicca?

 

[MK Shrimper]

Very much disaprove of faith schools be they Christian, Islam, Hindu or The Lizard People.

But I would say that, I'm an athiest!

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

The Lizard People.

I believe they prefer to be called Mawganians, or at the least Cornish!

 

[pickledseal]

Out of interest, as an RE teacher, what do you teach about, say, Islam, Hinduism, Bhuddism, or Wicca?

In Y7 we do a unit on Hinduism covering basic beleifs, worship, gods, Aum, Gandhi and include a visit to the Neasden TEmple

In Y8 we take an extensive look at Judaism; the culture Jesus grew up in, as well as Jews through history and today.

In Y9 we look in detail at Islam from it's beginnings with Muhammad (PBUH) to modern day issues (Islamaphobia) but focus around the 5 pillars.

This is part of the Brentwood R. Catholic Diocese recommended scheme of work caleld ICONS. I admit I perhaps do more than others, partly as I did several papers on World Religions at uni and feel more confident (and enjoy it!).

We don't cover Buddhism, partly due to it being a bit different from other 5 major worl relgions and best covered at GCSE/A-Level standard (but does not fit into our syllabus'). Very few schools look at Sikhism in much detail unless briefly covered in 'initation rites' (the 5 ks). I don't think many schools cover Wicca either....

For GCSE and A-Level we follow OCR syllabus'..... at GCSE Mark's Gospel (used to be more popular, but biblical studies is not so popular these days, a shame I feel as I love it! It's one of the most important historical and cultural references that exists, regardless or not if it is 'true') and the Roman Catholic Effects and Behaviour paper - which helps students get high grades as there is large focus on the sacrmaments (which most have done!) but also looks at moral and ethical ideas such asabortion, euthanasia etc. At A-Level they follow the Philosophy and Ethics papers like most of the 6th form 'RE' A-Levels these days.

 

[pickledseal]

Very much disaprove of faith schools be they Christian, Islam, Hindu or The Lizard People.

But I would say that, I'm an athiest!

Why do you think that they shouldn't be provided for people with faith convictions though?? It's always interested me about this view... I almost find it similar to, 'We should knock down the churches, mosques, temples, synagogues as I think it is a load of non-sense'. My lecturer at uni always said there was a certain selfishness about it - just wondered if you disagreed with that? ;)

 

[MK Shrimper]

Why do you think that they shouldn't be provided for people with faith convictions though?? It's always interested me about this view... I almost find it similar to, 'We should knock down the churches, mosques, temples, synagogues as I think it is a load of non-sense'. My lecturer at uni always said there was a certain selfishness about it - just wondered if you disagreed with that? ;)

I have no problem with people having faith as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else - but a school should be about facts and to me, religion is about as factual as Alice In Wonderland.

You want to learn about Jesus, Mohammed, Sikh Gurus, Zeus, Kali or Super Malcolm the Lizardonian then do it outside of an educational facility.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

Why do you think that they shouldn't be provided for people with faith convictions though?? It's always interested me about this view... I almost find it similar to, 'We should knock down the churches, mosques, temples, synagogues as I think it is a load of non-sense'. My lecturer at uni always said there was a certain selfishness about it - just wondered if you disagreed with that? ;)

Another question could be would you consider a single author school? Where although other authors are discussed, the teachings are all geared towards Thomas Hardy?

In all honesty, i'm a great believer that religion should be taught in schools, but always from a neutral perspective. I'd actually go so far as to say a religious person shouldn't teach religion. faith, and religion, are very complicated, and very personal issues that it should be up to the individual to decide over. Support should be given, but not neccessarily guidance, and I worry that a truly devout person would be unable to give this neutrality.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I am in favour generally of children being educated in "faith" schools which are relevant to their family beliefs, of any persuasion, if it fits in with the National Curriculum. I have a HUGE problem with families which suddenly rekindle some long burnt out flame of a belief in Catholicism just because the school they want to get their child into happens to get better results - it's definitely bending the truth and I really object to it.

In Benfleet, we have Holy Family RC school, which historically does very well but turns out children which are rounded and happy. In the main they go on to the two Catholic schools in Southend, Tommy More's and St Bernard's. I have a friend who is a TA there, and I know that the children are taught completely in line with the NC, but there is rather more emphasis on assemblies and obviously on the children going through confirmation.

People have so much more choice over where their children go these days, it's no longer down to catchment, and I do think this is creating an over competitive market in which faith schools have a particularly strong footing.

 

[Benfleet A1]

I'm against faith school teaching if they delve away from the national curriculem (sp) What I mean is that I have no problem with faiths teaching about their own religion as long as they also teach about others. To my mind that will teach tolerance with is sadly lacking. Jewish and Muslim faith schools do not do this which is wrong. All schools should promote tolerance and until they do we will continue down a very slippery slope.

 

[dloman]

Though i went to a CofE primary school i am not really in favour of it, also within the RE syllabus surely equal time should be given over to all religion to give pupils a balanced view.

And yes MK i would include atheism within this as i believe challenging what we are told is an important part of education and choice.

 

[pickledseal]

I have no problem with people having faith as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else - but a school should be about facts and to me, religion is about as factual as Alice In Wonderland.

You want to learn about Jesus, Mohammed, Sikh Gurus, Zeus, Kali or Super Malcolm the Lizardonian then do it outside of an educational facility.

How about the parts that are fact?

For instance Jesus did exist, we have more evidence of that than Julius Ceasar! He lived in Pallestine, around 2000 years ago, he did some pretty special things, he had many followers, they started acting and behaving in a different way..... the minor question really being was he or was he not the son of God?

Again for me, learning about Hinduism is a set of facts.... Many Hindus do this, some Hindus do that....

I think it is too dangerous to not teach RE in schools, particually if we pride ourselves on being a multi-cultural, mulit-ethnic, tolerant soceity. Otherwise we end up like the US who don't really know the difference between national pride and Christianity, where the Christian new right rules the country and all kinds of racism and prejudice still exist!

 

[dloman]

How about the parts that are fact?

For instance Jesus did exist, we have more evidence of that than Julius Ceasar! He lived in Pallestine, around 2000 years ago, he did some pretty special things, he had many followers, they started acting and behaving in a different way..... the minor question really being was he or was he not the son of God?

!

Though to be fair there are no schools based on the life of Julius Ceasar.

 

[Napster]

Very much disaprove of faith schools be they Christian, Islam, Hindu or The Lizard People.

But I would say that, I'm an athiest!

But atheism, if positively preached, is a faith of some kind.

ps A 2005 survey published in Encyclopædia Britannica finds that the non-religious make up about 11.9% of the world's population, and atheists about 2.3%. Therefore you're in the minority.

I think faith schools are fine - religion isn't taught to oppose other religions, but to love thy neighbour.

Personally, I'd love to see a Scottish Free Presbyterian school. That must be fun.

 

[Napster]

How about the parts that are fact?

For instance Jesus did exist, we have more evidence of that than Julius Ceasar! He lived in Pallestine, around 2000 years ago,

I don't know why, but I keep confusing Palpatine with Palestine.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

How about the parts that are fact?

For instance Jesus did exist, we have more evidence of that than Julius Ceasar! He lived in Pallestine, around 2000 years ago, he did some pretty special things, he had many followers, they started acting and behaving in a different way..... the minor question really being was he or was he not the son of God?

I'd say there's even more evidence than that. Going back further to the great flood, and I think you'll find it crops up in most religions from around that area (I'm pretty sure the sumerians had there own version) Whilst not being proof, it would make it highly likely that there was a flood of some sort around that time. I believe I'm right in saying that Jesus' existence is accepted by Islam too, it's just that, along with Judaism, they question his actual "connections".

These are the sort of things that should be taught, and indeed are. It's just where the fact ends, and the belief begins, that one has to be careful

 

[Napster]

These are the sort of things that should be taught, and indeed are. It's just where the fact ends, and the belief begins, that one has to be careful

Kierkegaard called it a "leap of faith".

 

[Jedi Shrimper]

I have no problem with people having faith as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else - but a school should be about facts and to me, religion is about as factual as Alice In Wonderland.

You want to learn about Jesus, Mohammed, Sikh Gurus, Zeus, Kali or Super Malcolm the Lizardonian then do it outside of an educational facility.

The facts are these religions do exist, and have shaped the world we live in today for better or worse.

It has created all the cultures we find surrounding us today, in order to better understand one another it is essential that we learn about each other.

 

[Mad Cyril]

Apparently there is to be a new report out on Monday trying to persuade Ed Balls to get rid of faith schools (including Catholic, CoE as well as Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, and even Greek Orthodox and Seventh Day Adventist).

BBC Radio Essex have asked me to briefly speak on their Sunday morning show argueing the case FOR faith schools - given I am an RE teacher working in a Catholic school! (and they had my number as I spoke before about my time in Ethiopia)

Previous governments have been in favour, with David Blunkett famously saying he wanted to "bottle" the ethos of faith schools. Ed Balls says faith schools could raise standards in poorer areas, which may be through multi-faith academies. They don't seem to be going anywhere fast...

HOWEVER, the National Secular Society claims 80% of the population disapprove of faith schools!

Obviously I am looking for arguements supporting faith schools for my slot on Sunday but thought I'd hear what the pub had to say on the matter ;)

I'd tell BBC Essex to f*** right off until they start providing full coverage of away games.

It would probably carry more weight if you could get something from the Pope backing you up. That way the Beeb will know they are messing with the big boys.

 

[MK Shrimper]

The facts are these religions do exist, and have shaped the world we live in today for better or worse.

It has created all the cultures we find surrounding us today, in order to better understand one another it is essential that we learn about each other.

Okay I agree in point that kids should learn of these faiths but at no time should any part of religion be stated that "this is a fact."

Watching Dawkins programme the other day on C4 I was quite disturbed that creationism was given the same platform at evolution in one school - and this wasn't some wackjob Midwestern school in the US, this was in good old England.