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Faith Schools

To pray or not to pray

  • Undecided like a agnostic sitting on a fence....

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    26

MK Shrimper

Striker
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
52,643
Following on from the other thread, should they be banned?

I can imagine you don't need my viewpoint on this, it's a definite yes. I think they create segregation and besides too many people lie about their faith just to get young 'un into a school just because the church are pumping more money into it.

School should be about facts - teach about what other people believe, but leave it there.

Thoughts?
 
No problem with them. If people want to run, work at, fund and attend faith schools then that's fine by me.
 
Education - go to your local school, don't segregate by religion, gender, wealth or ability to pass the 11+ (with the aid of a tutor who teaches you how to pass enterence exams and nothing more). That is then your community, and everyone lives happily ever after. Parental choice means nothing because everyone wants to go to the 'good' schools. Keep it simple, that's where you live and your school is ten minutes walk away.
 
Don't agree with them, mind you, also don't agree with "free schools". What better example can be set to children than actively encouraging children of all creeds and colour to mix together and to learn together.

Having said that, I don't have a problem with selective schools - not the same thing at all. Certainly I know from friends with kids at the Southend Grammar schools, they are about as inclusive as it's possible for them to be these days - multi cultural and multi faith.
 
just because the church are pumping more money into it.

Is this true? I don't know myself but would be interested to know if church schools spend more per pupil than comprehensives.

School should be about facts - teach about what other people believe, but leave it there.

And who decides what is fact? Would you consider the theory of global warming to be fact? What about the study of economics?

I've made this point many times on this forum, that today's labour market is global. If you want to secure the best job then you need to be able to compete with the best graduates from all over the world. The British education system has become fixated on equality of input at the expense of quality. If faith schools raise the general standard of education then I'm all in favour.
 
Is this true? I don't know myself but would be interested to know if church schools spend more per pupil than comprehensives.

Yes, my boss' kid goes to a Catholic school and her entire ethos was because the local church buy more equipment for the school. If it's general all over, I have no idea but I'd imagine it is.

And who decides what is fact? Would you consider the theory of global warming to be fact? What about the study of economics?

If there is disprovable data then yes to both.

I've made this point many times on this forum, that today's labour market is global. If you want to secure the best job then you need to be able to compete with the best graduates from all over the world. The British education system has become fixated on equality of input at the expense of quality. If faith schools raise the general standard of education then I'm all in favour.

At what cost to society? More segregation? Why not raise the standard of ALL schools, not just the ones that believe the fairy tales of the desert dwelling tribesman of 2000 years ago.
 
My kids attend a military academy whose entire ethos is that todays soldier is an army of one.
 
Following on from the other thread, should they be banned?

I can imagine you don't need my viewpoint on this, it's a definite yes. I think they create segregation and besides too many people lie about their faith just to get young 'un into a school just because the church are pumping more money into it.

School should be about facts - teach about what other people believe, but leave it there.

Thoughts?

I went to St Michaels Church of England school in Leigh on Sea as a primary school - very good school and got me a very good start to my education - we has mass most mornings but I left there still not having faith in god

Really it was like a normal school but I learnt much about Christanity.

Would I send my child to one? Yes! faith does teach some very good ethics to be polite and to respect others
 
Yes, my boss' kid goes to a Catholic school and her entire ethos was because the local church buy more equipment for the school. If it's general all over, I have no idea but I'd imagine it is.

I was looking for something more reliable than anecdote.


If there is disprovable data then yes to both.

Who validates that data? It could be a very short school day.

At what cost to society? More segregation? Why not raise the standard of ALL schools, not just the ones that believe the fairy tales of the desert dwelling tribesman of 2000 years ago.

Raising the standard of all schools would be ideal, but Britain's plummet down the international league tables doesn't suggest that is happening. The impact of faith schools is marginal, but they at least set the right competitive tone by placing the needs and demands of parents above the equality agenda of the education establishment.
 
I was looking for something more reliable than anecdote.




Who validates that data? It could be a very short school day.



Raising the standard of all schools would be ideal, but Britain's plummet down the international league tables doesn't suggest that is happening. The impact of faith schools is marginal, but they at least set the right competitive tone by placing the needs and demands of parents above the equality agenda of the education establishment.

Intresting you talk about the criteria of who decides what is valid data then use the same criteria of economics . Economics is a theoretical system it doesn't exist outside of it self but is related and aides other systems , much like faith in faith schools .

I have no issues with a faith school , however i do agree with them loosing their public /charity funding to maintain them .
The quality of teaching a subject is what is required , not the subject .
 
Here are the 2010 financial year figures for the borough's secondary schools (from the department of Education). I've calculated the spending per pupil using all of the expenditure categories. I've also included the percentage of pupils eligible for free school meals as it closely correlates with expenditure.

NamePupils% FSMGBP / Pupil
Shoebury164517.26,241
Chase High98535.46,197
Futures College59840.67,498
Westcliff Boys10411.24,234
Eastwood8879.15,417
Westcliff Girls105044,950
Southend Girls10502.64,933
Belfairs132312.85,745
Southend Boys10321.84,702
St. Thomas More9935.94,930
Cecil Jones156519.65,095
St Bernard's8587.35,304

So from that I would say that faith schools do not spend more per pupil than state schools.

The numbers are interesting though. Why not privatise all education but have the state meet the cost? If it costs £5k per pupil per year why not simply pay the private fees for every kid in the country?
 
Intresting you talk about the criteria of who decides what is valid data then use the same criteria of economics . Economics is a theoretical system it doesn't exist outside of it self but is related and aides other systems , much like faith in faith schools .

That is why I used the example. Economics is not an exact science as it cannot be "proved". You can amass data to support a theory but it would fail MK's fact based criteria.
 
Intresting you talk about the criteria of who decides what is valid data then use the same criteria of economics . Economics is a theoretical system it doesn't exist outside of it self but is related and aides other systems , much like faith in faith schools .

I have no issues with a faith school , however i do agree with them loosing their public /charity funding to maintain them .
The quality of teaching a subject is what is required , not the subject .

Steve-Buscemi-awards-reaction.gif
 
That is why I used the example. Economics is not an exact science as it cannot be "proved". You can amass data to support a theory but it would fail MK's fact based criteria.

Agreed, however MK was talking about the data for global warming and the current data available and consensus of this is it is happing (its cause that maybe open to interpretation) . MK's criteria is spot on , economics would rightly fail as much like all forms of statistics it is open to interpretation ;-)
 
One of my specialist subjects here.

Catholic schools, and I'm not 100% on CoE schools, need to find 10% of their budget. This alone makes it totally, financially unfeasable for the government to get rid. Many of these schools also own their land/buildings which the government could not afford to by off them.

I have sacraficed career progression, and therefore salary, to teach in a Catholic school. The church (admitedly the CoE) were the first to set up free education in this country, way before the government, and have played a major role throughout the history of education in this country - after all, its no coincidence that RE is distinct from the Nat Curr (the '88 Ed Act states pupils must study "The Nat Curr and RE").

I think you'll find evolution on the Nat Curr and GCSE syllabus'.

For me, it's the ethos that is created in a Catholic school - the distinct nature of the upbringing (hopefully) supported at home, school and parish.

Also RC schools are often more diverse and inclusive: http://www.cesew.org.uk/standardnews.asp?id=11347

Wish I had more time on this thread.... bloody marking to do :winking:
 
Here are the 2010 financial year figures for the borough's secondary schools (from the department of Education). I've calculated the spending per pupil using all of the expenditure categories. I've also included the percentage of pupils eligible for free school meals as it closely correlates with expenditure.

Name
Pupils
% FSM
GBP / Pupil
Shoebury
1645
17.2
6,241
Chase High
985
35.4
6,197
Futures College
598
40.6
7,498
Westcliff Boys
1041
1.2
4,234
Eastwood
887
9.1
5,417
Westcliff Girls
1050
4
4,950
Southend Girls
1050
2.6
4,933
Belfairs
1323
12.8
5,745
Southend Boys
1032
1.8
4,702
St. Thomas More
993
5.9
4,930
Cecil Jones
1565
19.6
5,095
St Bernard's
858
7.3
5,304

So from that I would say that faith schools do not spend more per pupil than state schools.

The numbers are interesting though. Why not privatise all education but have the state meet the cost? If it costs £5k per pupil per year why not simply pay the private fees for every kid in the country?

Would those numbers include funds/equipment donated by Parent associations, or for faith schools the church?
 
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