For those who believe that the founding ideology of America

[Lester Bangs]

If its American shows you're after then TVGORGE.COM is your friend.

Watching Madmen, 30 Rock and revisiting Band of Brothers at the moment in anticipation of 'Pacific'

 

[Smudger]

No , what i expect people to be shocked by is the founding ideals of America , oft put forth as the sole force for democracey and light... really was founded on those principles , yet in recent years these are deliberately eroded and ignored .

It's not me who needs to keep up , im finding im slowing down to inform you ;)

Impressive counter-punching by the boy Osymandus there.

ROUND 57

<ding ding>

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

No , what i expect people to be shocked by is the founding ideals of America , oft put forth as the sole force for democracey and light... really was founded on those principles , yet in recent years these are deliberately eroded and ignored .

It's not me who needs to keep up , im finding im slowing down to inform you ;)

And alas, you show your true colours and reveal that you're dismayed at the USA's 'erosion' of noble principles whilst you'll cheerily defend Islamists' rights to act like barbarians. This is the country that European intellectual snobs decry as a cess pool of ignorant prejudice whilst at the same time the majority white population of the USA elects a black man to lead them.

Step your game up Osy.

 

[Swiss Tony]

And alas, you show your true colours and reveal that you're dismayed at the USA's 'erosion' of noble principles whilst you'll cheerily defend Islamists' rights to act like barbarians. This is the country that European intellectual snobs decry as a cess pool of ignorant prejudice whilst at the same time the majority white population of the USA elects a black man to lead them.

Step your game up Osy.

What an uppercut Rusty,ref stop it now.

 

[osymandus]

And alas, you show your true colours and reveal that you're dismayed at the USA's 'erosion' of noble principles whilst you'll cheerily defend Islamists' rights to act like barbarians. This is the country that European intellectual snobs decry as a cess pool of ignorant prejudice whilst at the same time the majority white population of the USA elects a black man to lead them.

Step your game up Osy.

Eeer again no ... i defend people's freedoms , but not the right to whole scale slaughter from any ideology (you must be getting old here ) .
Pining colours to ourselves are we , you still believe you own a country if you plant a flag an say this is ours , are we in the Macarthy era again ?? And how is decrying the erosion of a once noble institution and ideal automatic make you a believer in fundamentalist ideals of teh opposite spectrum.

Intellectuals 1) Tend to not make generalised statements if their works are read specificity 1a) Can be wrong 2) This country had elected a Christian fundamentalist backed by "the voice of god" twice. And what's so important about a white population or a brown , black or hispanic etc .

I tend to believe the issue you and those (of left or right persuasion normally on the extremes) have the "you are with or against us mentality" , which is ... childish. It can be proven to be "correct" in certain circumstances , and when done so is blindly adhered to as always the right action to do forever. There's alway's bad guys , and if we can't see them well we'll just go and make some... err i mean find them hiding.

The world is a myriad of colours and shades , and any one colour taking over would blind everyone.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

The world is a myriad of colours and shades , and any one colour taking over would blind everyone.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, pass me the sick bucket. Go and get a job with Benetton bro.

 

[Lord Football]

And alas, you show your true colours and reveal that you're dismayed at the USA's 'erosion' of noble principles whilst you'll cheerily defend Islamists' rights to act like barbarians. This is the country that European intellectual snobs decry as a cess pool of ignorant prejudice whilst at the same time the majority white population of the USA elects a black man to lead them.

Step your game up Osy.

Ignorance. Americans with passports 28%, how many use them are another matter. Its an interesting statistic. It highlights America's insular position in the world, one which was extended and further defined by GWB. There is a feeling that Americans are scared of the rest of the world, probably because most of them don't understand it.

I can recall, though clearly not from personal memory, McCarthyism. Where people who were merely suggested as having an alternative political position were basically hounded out of their careers.

I do sense an improvement under Obama, and partially agree that his election is a pointer towards a more tolerant and understanding America. Alternatively, his election could just have been the rejection of Republican policies and a terrible two term President.

I am hopeful that the new America will bring improvements to the world in general and that the current President will be a less gung-ho and warmongering than his President.

I suppose only history will provide that answer.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Ignorance. Americans with passports 28%, how many use them are another matter. Its an interesting statistic. It highlights America's insular position in the world, one which was extended and further defined by GWB. There is a feeling that Americans are scared of the rest of the world, probably because most of them don't understand it.

I can recall, though clearly not from personal memory, McCarthyism. Where people who were merely suggested as having an alternative political position were basically hounded out of their careers.

How many people had passports in the old Soviet regime that you're obviously so proud of? And how did Stalin and the gang deal with dissenters? For a self-proclaimed Stalinist to criticise the USA on it's insular position and lack of tolerance is truly breathtaking.

 

[Dick Bate's Protege]

Ignorance. Americans with passports 28%, how many use them are another matter. Its an interesting statistic. It highlights America's insular position in the world, one which was extended and further defined by GWB. There is a feeling that Americans are scared of the rest of the world, probably because most of them don't understand it.

I can recall, though clearly not from personal memory, McCarthyism. Where people who were merely suggested as having an alternative political position were basically hounded out of their careers.

I do sense an improvement under Obama, and partially agree that his election is a pointer towards a more tolerant and understanding America. Alternatively, his election could just have been the rejection of Republican policies and a terrible two term President.

I am hopeful that the new America will bring improvements to the world in general and that the current President will be a less gung-ho and warmongering than his President.

I suppose only history will provide that answer.

Whilst in the Soviet Union they were just shot.

 

[osymandus]

Whilst in the Soviet Union they were just shot.

Though some in the USA met "strange" accidents , John Whiteside Parson's being a intresting example.

Again your both doing this claiming a immediate superiority. Its like saying yes we murdered some people but at least it wasnt genocide. Their both wrong and shouldn't happen one can't possible justify the other by being a lesser of two evils

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Though some in the USA met "strange" accidents , John Whiteside Parson's being a intresting example.

Again your both doing this claiming a immediate superiority. Its like saying yes we murdered some people but at least it wasnt genocide. Their both wrong and shouldn't happen one can't possible justify the other by being a lesser of two evils

Some conspiracy theorists claiming that a few commies got iced compared to an undisputed mass genocide. Yeah, that is superiority I'm afraid Osy.

 

[osymandus]

Some conspiracy theorists claiming that a few commies got iced compared to an undisputed mass genocide. Yeah, that is superiority I'm afraid Osy.

Your really not getting this are you . 1 murder is wrong , and 26 million is still wrong . We know for a fact democracies do have people bumped off , we know Stalin was a mad evil ******* who was a slaughter of millions . However this does not invalidate any and all things associated with those societies by association alone. Caviar and vodkka are evil , so now is the international space station and leading optical surgeons of the last 30 years , infact all rocket technology is evil by this association because of the work on the V1 and V2. And even better most of teh ground work on modern paediatric science is worse because it was aided by the works of Josepth Mengler . Where do you want to end Rusty ?

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Your really not getting this are you . 1 murder is wrong , and 26 million is still wrong . We know for a fact democracies do have people bumped off , we know Stalin was a mad evil ******* who was a slaughter of millions . However this does not invalidate any and all things associated with those societies by association alone. Caviar and vodkka are evil , so now is the international space station and leading optical surgeons of the last 30 years , infact all rocket technology is evil by this association because of the work on the V1 and V2. And even better most of teh ground work on modern paediatric science is worse because it was aided by the works of Josepth Mengler . Where do you want to end Rusty ?

You don't get it. Well maybe very occasionally.

 

[Lord Football]

How many people had passports in the old Soviet regime that you're obviously so proud of? And how did Stalin and the gang deal with dissenters? For a self-proclaimed Stalinist to criticise the USA on it's insular position and lack of tolerance is truly breathtaking.

I believe this is a thread about the USA, and I probably posed a line thought you cannot answer, so you conveniently change the subject.

I also believe it was you who Christened me a "Godless Stalinist" on this board, and it was the mods who did the business with my title without my knowledge.

And finally, if you would like a discussion on the Soviet system, I am happy to have one, but I don't think our conclusions would be that much different, though how we reach them certainly would be. Over to you on that one....

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I believe this is a thread about the USA, and I probably posed a line thought you cannot answer, so you conveniently change the subject.

I also believe it was you who Christened me a "Godless Stalinist" on this board, and it was the mods who did the business with my title without my knowledge.

And finally, if you would like a discussion on the Soviet system, I am happy to have one, but I don't think our conclusions would be that much different, though how we reach them certainly would be. Over to you on that one....

Which of your irrational hate-filled prejudices against the US do you want me to address first?

 

[Lord Football]

Which of your irrational hate-filled prejudices against the US do you want me to address first?

I don't believe I made any. In fact I made quite a neutral statement about GWB and opinion of his Presidential term. I believe I made a statement about isolationism, ignorance and hope for the future. I did mention McCarthyism, you can discuss that if you can.

I am sorry you didn't understand, and even sorrier you are evading the points I am making.

 

[osymandus]

I don't believe I made any. In fact I made quite a neutral statement about GWB and opinion of his Presidential term. I believe I made a statement about isolationism, ignorance and hope for the future. I did mention McCarthyism, you can discuss that if you can.

I am sorry you didn't understand, and even sorrier you are evading the points I am making.

He does do that dosnt he .

 

[Lord Football]

He does do that dosnt he .

Yeah, but to be fair. So do I :)

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I don't believe I made any. In fact I made quite a neutral statement about GWB and opinion of his Presidential term. I believe I made a statement about isolationism, ignorance and hope for the future. I did mention McCarthyism, you can discuss that if you can.

I am sorry you didn't understand, and even sorrier you are evading the points I am making.

An unusual tactic for the left - claiming intellectual superiority over the right. You think I can't debate a Godless commie punk like you and an illiterate like Osy? Americans don't travel abroad as much as Europeans because they don't need to. They have mountains, beaches, deserts and whores within their own borders. They're also more self-confident about their nationality and haven't been so apologetic about national identity as so many pantywaist Europeans. They don't fear other nations, they just don't care about them (other than in charitable donations, where the US leads the world in giving per capita by some margin).

History will be far kinder to Dubya than it will be to Obama, whose approval ratings are going downhill faster than a Georgian luger. He doesn't understand the reality of the USA's responsibilities as the world's only military superpower, and what you describe as aggression and colonialism, I regard as responsible stewardship of the security status quo. Do we really want the USA to sit on the sidelines whilst Iran acquires nuclear armaments, or would we rather they crushed Ahmadinejad like a bug? I'd be interested to hear your views on that. Obama also doesn't understand the realities of macroeconomics, but I know you don't either so let's leave that well alone.

As for McCarthyism? Don't believe everything George Clooney wants you to believe. After the fall of the Soviet empire, Yeltsin released many archived documents to the Western press, documents which proved that many of these 'poor victims' were spies and traitors to their country. It's become accepted that the HUAC hearings were akin to the Soviet show trials but subsequent evidence has shown that McCarthy was on to something.

And one last point.

Behave yourself.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

He does do that dosnt he .

Yeah, but to be fair. So do I :)

Go and get a room.

Preferably in Afghanistan.