Foreign Quotas...

[EastStandBlue]

Personally, I'm all for this.

If you examine the worlds most successful nation in international football, Brazil, in their national league they have a strict rule that each squad is only allowed 3 foreign players, and Spanish football sides playing in La Liga have enforced that only 3 Non-EU players are allowed to be registered.

I don't think it's any coincidence that Brazil have consistently developed some of the worlds most gifted footballers, and the current crop of Spanish football stars are amongst the best in the world e.g. Torres, Villa, Joaquin, Iniesta, Puyol and Ramos.

I've been saying for months that this should be implemented, loosely at first with the rules tightening over a graduated period of time (e.g. maximum of 12 foreign players in the chosen 16 at first, with the end limit being 7 or such) so that clubs can't complain that they weren't warned about it. I honestly think that if this came in, as I think it will as part of the inevitable shake up after we fail to qualify next wednesday, it will improve the standard of the national set up. Not instantly, but it will certainly be noticeable in 10 years time.

As it goes, the current crop of U21's are one of the most gifted sets we've had and it's good to see players like Bentley, Young, Agbonlahor and Taylor playing regular football... but players like Huddlestone who show immense potential are still overlooked.

 

[Uncle Leo]

It won't be allowed by EU law so there's not really much point discussing it. It would have to be on the basis of a gentlemen's agreement between the clubs and that's about as likely as Southend winning the UEFA Cup in my lifetime.

 

[Mr. Benedict]

The clubs will never agree to it - the money in the premiership is too great and the financial cost of getting relegated will scare them off.

 

[number11]

Doesnt EU law just restrict laws against the movement and employment of EU nationals though. Im not sure there is any EU law preventing restrictions on non-eu workers.....otherwise any Tom Dick or Harry could come here to work (cough cough).

Therefore my understanding is that we could limit the number of African, South American or Non- EU players. This would be a start.

 

[Pubey]

i actually agree with arsene wengers remarks about this.. and that english players need to play against and with the best. i think england being crap is down to the youth team setup and in some ways the actions of the big teams in poaching young talent.

EastStandBlues remarks about spain are flawed because just like england they are struggling to qualify and have performed worse than us in big competitions in recent history... and i think brazil is a unique case

 

[number11]

i actually agree with arsene wengers remarks about this.. and that english players need to play against and with the best. i think england being crap is down to the youth team setup and in some ways the actions of the big teams in poaching young talent.

EastStandBlues remarks about spain are flawed because just like england they are struggling to qualify and have performed worse than us in big competitions in recent history... and i think brazil is a unique case

But part of the youth team settup problems is that the big clubs are now getting kids from overseas and bringing these through the system, rather than English kids. If the clubs knew they would ahve to be playing a certain number of English kids then they would put more effort into bringing these through the system.

 

[Uncle Leo]

and i think brazil is a unique case

You're not wrong there. The fact that Brazil has a population of about 180m doesn't hurt either.

 

[FeedTheGoat]

If you examine the worlds most successful nation in international football, Brazil, in their national league they have a strict rule that each squad is only allowed 3 foreign players, and Spanish football sides playing in La Liga have enforced that only 3 Non-EU players are allowed to be registered.

I don't think it's any coincidence that Brazil have consistently developed some of the worlds most gifted footballers.

I think it's a bit flawed to say this about Brazil. I doubt many players in the Brazil squad actually ply their trade in their home nation, hence why they play so many friendlies on neutral locations in Europe (i.e. emirates or loftus road). The kids in Brazil with any talent are quickly whisked away to Europe to earn a good wage and they then develop their skills to the tactical game and become bloody good players.

What I think we need is more English players going abroad and learning different styles of football, we always seem too one dimensional and lack a plan B when things are going up **** creek. We need players who can adapt to a different style of play and offer the opponent something different, then we'll become a better national team.

 

[EastStandBlue]

I think it's a bit flawed to say this about Brazil. I doubt many players in the Brazil squad actually ply their trade in their home nation, hence why they play so many friendlies on neutral locations in Europe (i.e. emirates or loftus road). The kids in Brazil with any talent are quickly whisked away to Europe to earn a good wage and they then develop their skills to the tactical game and become bloody good players.

No, but they all play regular competitive football from the ages of 15 onwards in the league until they chose to ply their trade in Spain, France or Russia because of the loose work permit laws.

The likes of Tevez, Ronaldinho and Robinho were playing regular top flight football at the age of 16/17... It just doesn't happen here because the English market is inflated so managers go elsewhere.

As for Wenger's comments, granted players only are as good as the competition they face, and i agree a degree of foreign implement is good for the English game, but it doesn't have to mean we take it to the lengths he has. Wenger is the worst of the lot for the abuse of the foreign market... Aside from Ashley Cole, I can't name 1 class English player who has been given the chance under Wenger so far...
It's not as if the class isn't there at the Arsenal Academy either, Bentley is a class player yet had to move to Blackburn to get football, same with Upson.

As for Spain, i'll be putting money on them to win Euro 2008... Pereniall underachievers, much like ourselves, but technically amongst the most gifted sides in the world IMO.

 

[shrimperchick]

Surely if the young English players are that good then they wouldnt be overlooked

 

[Mr. Benedict]

Surely if the young English players are that good then they wouldnt be overlooked

It's not just that, it's the pricing.
I was reading the shrimpers trust's newsletter in my lunchbreak, and there's mention in there about the young players Chelsea bought from Leeds, who may end up costing 5m, while a dutch player they purchased of similar ability cost £150k. English players are massively overpriced so the managers look overseas, where similarly skilled players cost a lot less.

Until clubs stop holding each other to ransom, the cost of decent English players will continue to rise, and less and less will make it to the top flight.

 

[scrounger]

I just think it is ironic that Steven Gerrard has come and given his two-penneth worth... because the majority of Liverpool's squad is English isn't it Stevey?! Is he saying he wants to get rid of some of his team-mates.

Also, Jermaine Pennant clearly doesn't count as he is useless, as I am closer to making the England squad.

 

[steveo]

If you examine the worlds most successful nation in international football, Brazil, in their national league they have a strict rule that each squad is only allowed 3 foreign players

None of the Brazilian team play in Brazil So by your reasoning we would be better not having any English players in the Prem, so they could play abroad and be as good as Brazil.

I mentioned in a different thread, if the foreigners were not playing in England, their places would be taken by players who have now retired or who are dropping down the leagues. So our top players will be playing against lesser opposition. How will that help England?

If an English youngster is good enough he will make it. The standard for a player to get in the Prem is higher than ever so they haveto raise thier game.

There were no foreigners in England in 74 and 78 and we didnt qualify for the World cup in those years so to say foreigners in the Prem make the English team worse is ridiculous.

 

[EastStandBlue]

There were no foreigners in England in 74 and 78 and we didnt qualify for the World cup in those years so to say foreigners in the Prem make the English team worse is ridiculous.

No foreigners in '66 either...

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

None of the Brazilian team play in Brazil So by your reasoning we would be better not having any English players in the Prem, so they could play abroad and be as good as Brazil.

I mentioned in a different thread, if the foreigners were not playing in England, their places would be taken by players who have now retired or who are dropping down the leagues. So our top players will be playing against lesser opposition. How will that help England?

If an English youngster is good enough he will make it. The standard for a player to get in the Prem is higher than ever so they haveto raise thier game.

There were no foreigners in England in 74 and 78 and we didnt qualify for the World cup in those years so to say foreigners in the Prem make the English team worse is ridiculous.

Its a more complicated equation than that.

My take on it is that the best foreigners do improve the standard of football, but for every Denis Bergkamp there are 20 Gilles Gimandis or Pascal Cygans or Cristopher Wrehs etc that add nothing to the English game and because they're internationals signed for 7 figure sums on 5 digit weekly wages get played ahead of younger, locally developed talent.

Its also safer to pick internationals than it is to pick kids. Now add in that English boards are too afraid to pick young English managerial talent and its far safer to pick say a Ramos than say a Gary Johnson, that manager will predominantly know foreign young talent and have predominantly foreign connections.


Edit: I would be fully in favour of more of our players moving abroad, the trouble is they can't see past "the world's greatest league" myth.

 

[Uncle Leo]

No foreigners in '66 either...

But we were the host nation. I think that may have helped a little.

 

[steveo]

but for every Denis Bergkamp there are 20 Gilles Gimandis or Pascal Cygans

Grimandi and Cygan wernt the best but if there were better available in england surey Wenger would have got them?
Half the problem is the fee's you have to pay for an english player.
I believe Nugent and Adebayour were about the same money, and one of them is doing really well and the other isnt playing. If you were a manger who would you buy?

 

[EastStandBlue]

Grimandi and Cygan wernt the best but if there were better available in england surey Wenger would have got them?

I sincerely believe he wouldn't...

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

England being crap, is due to England being crap. England have enough players to form a squad to do well, but they have too many individuals, no team, thats the problem, not that they play with foreign players in their team. If you took the foreigners out, the top half of players in the Championship would become prem players, and so on, the football would suffer, thats it