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applelover

Coach
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
605
Hi,

Yesterday was pretty bad...there’s no glossing over that. However overall our home form
has been pretty solid if not spectacular. Our problem is our away form, which’s is strange as we’ve performed well away in recent seasons.

People are getting wound up and are expecting more. I understand that especially considering the poor performances from players who on paper should be playing a lot better. However we’ve had a lot of injuries which has disrupted the entire season as has certain disciplinary issues. You can put some of this on Brown. If you sign older, injury prone and wayward players then you cannot be surprised when things go tits up.

However when you look at the teams in the top ten of the table they are all bigger clubs than us bar Shrewsbury. They’re either sleeping giants such as Portsmouth or Bradford or have spent multiple years in the championship in recent years. My question is can we expect to be above them? We can hope to be but can we justify calling for heads to roll when we’re not?

I had doubts about Brown at times. However he will rightfully go down as one of our most successful managers ever and he’s not had it easy. He’s successfully rebuilt the squad on two or three occasions. He got promotion and this far has comfortably kept us in this league. I’m certainly not going to be calling for his head.

Until we get the new stadium or a new investor with bags full of cash then I’ll be satisfied with 12th in league one. It’s just been one of those seasons. Injuries and poor luck have played their part.
 

tottenham541

President
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
6,203
If we finish half way up the table I'd be pleased with this season, if your aiming for championship you need to spend a fair bit of money and we don't have that right now:sad:
 

applelover

Coach
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
605
This is our level right now. We should never forget the scale of Tilson’s achievement in winning this division. The squad he assembled was top notch and full of players on the up.
 

McNasty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
16,197
Location
Otley, West Yorks
Mid-table finish might be alright for some but I am sure the Chairman will want promotion, especially after he has supported the manager with the signings PB has made.

Very competitive is our Ron.
 

RHB

Super Moderator ⭐
Staff member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
22,573
Location
Westcliff riviera
I don't think it's a question of alright for some. It's what is realistically achievable this season now. I'm sure Ron wanted the squad to challenge for promotion, we all did, but as things have turned out that isn't going to happen if we continue to perform as we are. Ron isn't stupid, he can dispense with Brown's services, and that could yet happen, but he also will see that mid table is now all that is on offer, probably.
 

McNasty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
16,197
Location
Otley, West Yorks
I don't think it's a question of alright for some. It's what is realistically achievable this season now. I'm sure Ron wanted the squad to challenge for promotion, we all did, but as things have turned out that isn't going to happen if we continue to perform as we are. Ron isn't stupid, he can dispense with Brown's services, and that could yet happen, but he also will see that mid table is now all that is on offer, probably.

Agreed bloke, I should have made my post clearer that Ron would have wanted promotion having made the signings, but as the season is panning out he would not be happy.
 

onceknownasrab

President
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
4,102
I don't think it's about where we finish in the table and currently I don't think we will ever find out quite how good we could be. My only expectation, with the players we have, that show some semblance of their ability on a fairly consistent level. As it stands, some of our players, are performing regularly below their best and that is unacceptable. We have strikers, granted none known to be prolific, that do not get in the right positions, make wrong decisions and, quite frankly, their collective finishing would be an embarrassment in the school playground.
Our midfield can put in a shift but lacks idea and, with the poor form of the strikers, too many passes look woeful because there is no one on the end of them.
Our defence has had too many disruptions due to injury but, for me, we did not field the best players we had on too many occasions.
Oxley has been a revelation.
If we were relegated I would accept it if the players put their best foot forward. Mid-table finish is our best hope and not a certainty. They will only get that, with the current level of performance, if the rest of the teams are poor.
I could easily trot out the usual claim that PB is to blame, and in part I am sure he is, but to exacerbate the problem, many of the players are being unacceptably poor. I think they have also been unprofessional and disrespectful to the club and the fans.
So we know our frustration but the expectation should only be for the team to do its best.
 

McNasty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
16,197
Location
Otley, West Yorks
Mid-table finish might be alright for some but I am sure the Chairman will want promotion, especially after he has supported the manager with the signings PB has made.

Very competitive is our Ron.

I don't think it's a question of alright for some. It's what is realistically achievable this season now. I'm sure Ron wanted the squad to challenge for promotion, we all did, but as things have turned out that isn't going to happen if we continue to perform as we are. Ron isn't stupid, he can dispense with Brown's services, and that could yet happen, but he also will see that mid table is now all that is on offer, probably.

Quote from Ron's postmatch interview to back my comment

"“The less you win the more you lose ground and the more the chairman loses sight of the Championship,” said Brown.

“So that means there’s more pressure.”
 

Up the Shrimpers

Life President
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
8,032
Hi,

Yesterday was pretty bad...there’s no glossing over that. However overall our home form
has been pretty solid if not spectacular. Our problem is our away form, which’s is strange as we’ve performed well away in recent seasons.

People are getting wound up and are expecting more. I understand that especially considering the poor performances from players who on paper should be playing a lot better. However we’ve had a lot of injuries which has disrupted the entire season as has certain disciplinary issues. You can put some of this on Brown. If you sign older, injury prone and wayward players then you cannot be surprised when things go tits up.

However when you look at the teams in the top ten of the table they are all bigger clubs than us bar Shrewsbury. They’re either sleeping giants such as Portsmouth or Bradford or have spent multiple years in the championship in recent years. My question is can we expect to be above them? We can hope to be but can we justify calling for heads to roll when we’re not?

I had doubts about Brown at times. However he will rightfully go down as one of our most successful managers ever and he’s not had it easy. He’s successfully rebuilt the squad on two or three occasions. He got promotion and this far has comfortably kept us in this league. I’m certainly not going to be calling for his head.

Until we get the new stadium or a new investor with bags full of cash then I’ll be satisfied with 12th in league one. It’s just been one of those seasons. Injuries and poor luck have played their part.

Depends what you mean by 'bigger'? Based on support Peterborough & Scunthorpe are not bigger than us and Oxford are only slightly bigger.
In terms of budget for players I would imagine Peterborough, Scunthorpe & Oxford are all pretty similar to us.
 

RHB

Super Moderator ⭐
Staff member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
22,573
Location
Westcliff riviera
Quote from Ron's postmatch interview to back my comment

"“The less you win the more you lose ground and the more the chairman loses sight of the Championship,” said Brown.

“So that means there’s more pressure.”

Yeah, I get that, but for all of what Phil is saying, I don't believe that Ron now sees promotion as anything more than a distance hope. Whether that means he will press the PB destruct button, who knows. But I do get the feeling the Phil is pressing him to do so.
 

Floval Flyer

Licensed to ill⭐
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
5,952
Location
Leigh On Sea
Depends what you mean by 'bigger'? Based on support Peterborough & Scunthorpe are not bigger than us and Oxford are only slightly bigger.
In terms of budget for players I would imagine Peterborough, Scunthorpe & Oxford are all pretty similar to us.

I agree with that, and in terms of fan base only Blackburn, Bradford, Charlton and Portsmouth are majorly bigger clubs.

Wigan would be non league if it wasn’t for the JJB millions pumped into their club in the mid-90s, Shrews, Scunny, Rotherham and Walsall get smaller crowds, and I reckon therefore we are on a par with Oxford and Peterboro.

The underlying issue is the fact that many of these clubs are better run, better funded and better managed.

In in the grand scheme we simply do not have the financial clout to attract the players we really need to get promoted right now. We lost Adam Thompson to Bury (smaller club, smaller gates) and Atkinson to Mansfield (lower division, smaller club, smaller gates) so fan base or standing are meaningless is the money isn’t there.

Until FF is a reality I can’t see us getting out to League 1. Realistically I’d give it another 3-5 years before we can dream of regular Championship football.

We are 6 points worse off this season than last, after 22 games, many of the players who performed well last season just aren’t doing it, added to that players who were brought in have been a let down, and our WOW signing is in the knackers-yard, and to top it off our manager has more meltdowns than a smelters yard!

I’ve been in the ‘Brown In’ camp for a long time, but like most I have my doubts, but at the same time I would only be happy to see him go if we have an exciting, young manager on the up coming in. But given that there’s no money to spend that’s unlikely.

There is no quick fix to our current situation, and considering we spent significantly less than the likes of Bury; spent loads and are rooted to the bottom of the table, it could be worse:-)

I think time is at an end for PB, but how we can attract a decent replacement is the worry, and I say RM won’t let him go, unless that person is in place. That said, lose our next 3 or 4 and it’s bye bye Brown regardless, problem is we may have to sell Lenny to pay our manager off...

happy days !
 

rigsby

Life President⭐
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
14,521
Its not just fans through the gate, its other revenue streams that count. Scunthorpe, Posh and Oxford are all streets ahead of us financially.

So far its only Shrewsbury who have gate crashed the top 10 this season. Bury and MK are down compared with their spend. But as per normal in the modern era nearly all the clubs are within 3 places of their budget. For us to do well, like we did last year, we would still need another 4 or 5 clubs to do worse than expected.
 

Floval Flyer

Licensed to ill⭐
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
5,952
Location
Leigh On Sea
Its not just fans through the gate, its other revenue streams that count. Scunthorpe, Posh and Oxford are all streets ahead of us financially.

So far its only Shrewsbury who have gate crashed the top 10 this season. Bury and MK are down compared with their spend. But as per normal in the modern era nearly all the clubs are within 3 places of their budget. For us to do well, like we did last year, we would still need another 4 or 5 clubs to do worse than expected.

exactly, and crucially this is why RM is pinning his hopes on Fossets Farm as we will not survive without the additional revenue from the complex. Speaking of which, when will the council make a decision?
 

leeblue

Members⭐
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
8,435
Location
On the seafront c c csiders
After missing out on the pmlay offs by 1 point last season due to a shambolic start and end to the season I don't think expecting the play offs this season is unrealistic at all.
 

Lord Football

Blues on Tour
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
3,544
Location
Sunny Southend on Sea
I think what really did it for me was the massive amount of hype and hope before the season started.

We kept Leonard. We got a class left back. A class centre back. A wow signing. Kightly coming straight out of the Premier League. Everything was looking like a bangingly good season, backed up by the phenominal performance against Blackburn opening day.

I don't recall as much positivity around Southend United for many, many years.

And then came Newport and Rotherham and reality bit. The reality is that a lot of older players aren't as good as they were last year. Anton, Ranger, Cox, Kightly have all failed to deliver. Bizarrely, if they did, we could feasibly go on a run but..... you know.... its unlikely. I don't think we look like a team, at times they don't seem to want to play with each other. Our lack of goals, or even goal scoring threat, is a real worry.
 

Up the Shrimpers

Life President
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
8,032
exactly, and crucially this is why RM is pinning his hopes on Fossets Farm as we will not survive without the additional revenue from the complex. Speaking of which, when will the council make a decision?

It has been mentioned in the FF thread that the application was not on December's list to be decided, so maybe January or Feb.
 

buffalowolf

Director
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
2,918
Location
ON MY *** IN FRONT OF COMPUTER
Agree preseason there was a lot of hype and talk about a promotion push and expectations were huge,but the talk wasnt just from us supporters but also from RM and PB,it was their expectations also,along with the players they bought in and how ell we did last year those expectations were justified.That it hasnt and now im sure will not eventuate can be put down to several factors ,1. Injuries have played a big part. 2 players not performing to the best of their ability,due to either age,or dressing room bust up or no confidence in manager i dont know.3 Players just going through motions off their last payday before retirement.Reading the match threads seems only a few can put their hands upto having had a good season,Oxley,Lenny Elvis when given a run and Kryptonite before he was injured.
 

Barry.C

Manager⭐
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
3,360
Location
Gillingham
I like to have high expectations in life.
when we love something very much there are times when we seek even more structure, order and particularly rationale. For example , "we can't expect much, we haven't got the money." Tosh
of course the money is a key component, but alongside other incentives, relationships, the weather, training, personalities, fate and fortune, tactics, business planning, facilities, coaching, injuries, referees, timing the market, loanees, I could go on, so many things play a part in success and failure

its not all about the money. Shrewsbury, not a big budget, second in the league. Second best defence, only 14 meagre goals conceded, against our 34 . They have had some injuries too. They rely on 6 defenders , excluding goalie on Loan from Man Utd, average age 27. They even have 3 defenders in their early twenties out on loan to sides like Chesterfield in league 2. How many do we loan out for experience to league 2

2 of Shrewsburys stars at the back come from the National league. Wow two signings 100% success, (not the 100-1 unlikely to happen scenario Rationale there then? ) Guess what NONE of the others come from the premiership or Championship, they come from Bury, Mansfield, Rotherham and Hartlepool. Nil cost for 3 of them. So what does that say about their strategy, philosophy? Scouting and our costly and risky approach age wise, squad size wise , wages wise?

One last comparator , they strangely have 4 young, degree ridden back room boys named Physio, sports therapist, sports science intern and an Analyst. All geared to training, fitness
and recruitment
But no we can't do any of this because, the players aren't out there of course and nobody makes it from the lower leagues, and our favourite, we can do begged all as weve got no money comparedto others, so let's accept we must finish 14 th surely!
 

Barry.C

Manager⭐
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
3,360
Location
Gillingham
Didn't want to mention all their other league 1 and 2 players and 5 loanees, one doing very well in midfield, the other second highest goalscorer, so I won't mention this other difference in approach , recruitment and style, wouldn't want to be ticked off as a whinger
 
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