Gareth Southgate, rewarding failure or providing security?

[Yorkshire Blue]

I stand by what I've previously said. We beat the sides we should beat but lose against decent opposition, 3 tournaments thats happened now where we come up short against decent side. England b side would beat the likes of Iran, Wales and senegal. Southgate been found wanting in big games where it matters. This England side is very talented side with players who are playing in the best league in the world and majority are consistently playing in Europe. Rice, saka, folden and bellingham are in today market are 100 mill plus players. Not like Southgate got bunch of average players at his disposal. I do believe a better tactical braver manager would do better than Southgate, you never know might lead us to glory.

We may have good players but other sides have better players. Look at how many English players got in the annual World XI the last decade (2 out of 110 spots).

Look at how many were top 3 FIFA World Men’s Player of the year (none since it started in 2016).

You’re rating England’s talent pool a lot higher than the rest of the world is.

 

[sufc4life21]

We may have good players but other sides have better players. Look at how many English players got in the annual World XI the last decade (2 out of 110 spots).

Look at how many were top 3 FIFA World Men’s Player of the year (none since it started in 2016).

You’re rating England’s talent pool a lot higher than the rest of the world is.

We may not have that 1 World class player who can produce a moment of magic to win a game like a messi or mbappe but those players are rare bread. we do have squad of very highly rated players. Jude bellingham on the cusp of potential move to Real Madrid, this England side isn't average side. with better tactically astute manager who is brave and prepared to gamble to win a game we could go further and win a tournament. We currently have a manager who is waiting for something to happen ie go goal down in a game to make changes which Southgate has been guilty on more than 1 occasion, which ultimately we end up losing.

 

[southendkid]

We may not have that 1 World class player who can produce a moment of magic to win a game like a messi or mbappe but those players are rare bread.

Being a world cup winner is a rare breed as well. It doesn't matter that they're hard to come by, it's what you need to be the best. It's no coincidence that Argentina and France were the finalists. The best don't even need to do anything to be essential, just their presence causes their teammates to have more space.

Against France we kept Mbappe quiet by having multiple defenders covering him, which meant their "lesser" players (who are still very good, Greizmann is just as good as Foden or Saka) had a lot of freedom to do their thing. Take him out of the squad and we probably could have won.

 

[sufc4life21]

Being a world cup winner is a rare breed as well. It doesn't matter that they're hard to come by, it's what you need to be the best. It's no coincidence that Argentina and France were the finalists. The best don't even need to do anything to be essential, just their presence causes their teammates to have more space.

Against France we kept Mbappe quiet by having multiple defenders covering him, which meant their "lesser" players (who are still very good, Greizmann is just as good as Foden or Saka) had a lot of freedom to do their thing. Take him out of the squad and we probably could have won.

Well yes as its only comes around once every 4 years. We only got boregate for another 18 months, hopefully after England can hire proper manager.

 

[londonblue]

Well yes as its only comes around once every 4 years. We only got boregate for another 18 months, hopefully after England can hire proper manager.

And there was I thinking we were having a sensible adult discussion, and you go and ruin it with a childish and unnecessary insult.

 

[rigsby]

Some of you must have watched over 500 England games. Even the younger members could be pushing on for 200.

So my question is name your top ten England performances. Games where you would give them a 7 or above. Obviously level of opponent and importance of match comes into your decision.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Being a world cup winner is a rare breed as well. It doesn't matter that they're hard to come by, it's what you need to be the best. It's no coincidence that Argentina and France were the finalists. The best don't even need to do anything to be essential, just their presence causes their teammates to have more space.

Against France we kept Mbappe quiet by having multiple defenders covering him, which meant their "lesser" players (who are still very good, Greizmann is just as good as Foden or Saka) had a lot of freedom to do their thing. Take him out of the squad and we probably could have won.

TBF (while I agree with a lot of the points you make) I'd say Greizmann has achieved a lot more in the game than Foden or Saka so fa,r (that's not to say they might not achieve as much as him in the future).In any case I'd've thought Bellingham was a better bet to really succeed than either of the England players you mention.

 

[Holy Joe]

Some of you must have watched over 500 England games. Even the younger members could be pushing on for 200.

So my question is name your top ten England performances. Games where you would give them a 7 or above. Obviously level of opponent and importance of match comes into your decision.

Demolition of the Dutch in Euro 96

 

[rigsby]

Demolition of the Dutch in Euro 96

Of course, up there with Germany 5-1.

Gazzas goal v Jockland is my personal fave and i'm old enough to remember us beating them 5-1 in about 1975?

 

[ozzie]

I was at Hungary away (and Switzerland) 1981....we won 3-1in Budapest.
Like most of the England fans,we got attacked during and after the game.
Then i was also at München for our 5-1win

 

[rigsby]

I was at Hungary away (and Switzerland) 1981....we won 3-1in Budapest.
Like most of the England fans,we got attacked during and after the game.
Then i was also at München for our 5-1win

Was that the one where Brooking scored and the ball stuck in the top corner?

 

[Holy Joe]

Of course, up there with Germany 5-1.

Gazzas goal v Jockland is my personal fave and i'm old enough to remember us beating them 5-1 in about 1975?

Gazza goal was magic - but I'm not sure the overall match and performance is in the top 10

 

[Holy Joe]

Demolition of Croatia in Portugal - euro 2004?

 

[sufc4life21]

I was at Hungary away (and Switzerland) 1981....we won 3-1in Budapest.
Like most of the England fans,we got attacked during and after the game.
Then i was also at München for our 5-1win

5-1 even heskey scored. Probably my favourite England win.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Some of you must have watched over 500 England games. Even the younger members could be pushing on for 200.

So my question is name your top ten England performances. Games where you would give them a 7 or above. Obviously level of opponent and importance of match comes into your decision.

Croatia 2 England 4 Euro 2004 - Rooney emerges as a world class player
Netherlands 1 England 4 Euro 1996 - it was a good time to play the Dutch but this was joyous
England 10 San Marino 0 World Cup qualifiers 2021 - yes it’s San Marino but you can only beat what’s in front of you and England demolished them and scored 10 (TEN). No England team in my lifetime has done anything like this. The most I’d ever seen a team score is 7. This was nearly 50% better.
England 2 Germany 0 Euro 2020 - England beat Germany in a knockout game and convincingly
England 1 W Germany 1 (Germany win on pens) 1990 WC - a heroic defeat. The one we lost in our best WC on foreign soil was actually our best performance
England 2 Argentina 2 (Argentina win on pens) 1998 World Cup - Owen’s goal, Beckham’s red card, a future Southend manager having a perfectly good goal chalked off, heroic failure once again
England 1 France 2 Euro 2004 - a theme is emerging here. England snatch defeat from the jaws of victory after England were cruising to victory only for Gerrard to **** it up
England 2 Sweden 0 2018 WC quarterfinals and this was as comfortable and as controlled as you could dream of.
England 1 Germany 1 Euro 96 - so near yet so far

My last one I feel is missing a qualifying game. Not 5-1 in Munich which was the most enjoyable rather than the best performance. Not Greece 2-2 which was the single best individual display. Maybe the 0-0 in Italy? I feel I’m missing another game though where we had to go away and produce and did so.

Just missing out Colombia, Iran, Panama, Tunisia all impressive first round WC victories and displays.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

What frustrates me about GS is that he won't play Foden and Grealish either side of Kane.
Those three would make mincemeat of most defences, most games. Get ahead and then make changes if attack isn't going to plan; rather than the mindset of hold with tight defensive play and look to score on a break.
Also Madison was "pulling up trees", as was Mount before the WC but Madison didn't get 1 minute of game time?
Too negative #endof.

 

[The Big Dady]

No contest for best England game

World Cup 1966 Wembley England 4 West Germany 2 (After Extra Time)

Great crowd sound track in front of 97,000 supporterrs

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

What frustrates me about GS is that he won't play Foden and Grealish either side of Kane.
Those three would make mincemeat of most defences, most games. Get ahead and then make changes if attack isn't going to plan; rather than the mindset of hold with tight defensive play and look to score on a break.
Also Madison was "pulling up trees", as was Mount before the WC but Madison didn't get 1 minute of game time?
Too negative #endof.

I don't think Madison was fit, but I agree regarding Foden and Grealish. I think Foden should have come on against the USA (we needed someone to take us forward) and Grealish against the French, as soon as we went 2-1 down (not 5 mins from the end)

 

[Kris]

We may not have that 1 World class player who can produce a moment of magic to win a game like a messi or mbappe but those players are rare bread. we do have squad of very highly rated players. Jude bellingham on the cusp of potential move to Real Madrid, this England side isn't average side. with better tactically astute manager who is brave and prepared to gamble to win a game we could go further and win a tournament. We currently have a manager who is waiting for something to happen ie go goal down in a game to make changes which Southgate has been guilty on more than 1 occasion, which ultimately we end up losing.

We are not average but we are unbalanced. Personnel wise we're above average in attack but below average in defence. Therefore there needs to be a compromise, which is why GS has to be conservative at times.

What we are missing is a player like Sofyan Amrobat, who was an absolute beast in Morocco's midfield. I don't know whether he's normally that good but he was the perfect anchor between defence and attack and allowed the team to play with more freedom.

What frustrates me about GS is that he won't play Foden and Grealish either side of Kane.
Those three would make mincemeat of most defences, most games. Get ahead and then make changes if attack isn't going to plan; rather than the mindset of hold with tight defensive play and look to score on a break.
Also Madison was "pulling up trees", as was Mount before the WC but Madison didn't get 1 minute of game time?
Too negative #endof.

That's because it would mean dropping Saka, who was probably our best player at the tournament. Harry Kane these days plays more like a number 10 than a number 9 and when he drops deep he needs a player with pace to run beyond him. Neither Foden nor Grealish have that quality so in a 4-3-3 one of the two has to be sacrificed.

I think Grealish is more suited as an impact sub anyway as he is at his best when there is more space to work in, not to mention his ability to win free-kicks. He was pivotal when he came on in the latter stages against Germany in the Euros.

 

[sufc4life21]

We are not average but we are unbalanced. Personnel wise we're above average in attack but below average in defence. Therefore there needs to be a compromise, which is why GS has to be conservative at times.

What we are missing is a player like Sofyan Amrobat, who was an absolute beast in Morocco's midfield. I don't know whether he's normally that good but he was the perfect anchor between defence and attack and allowed the team to play with more freedom.

We got that player in kalvin Philips, unfortunately for England he injury prone. I first came across Amrobat at verona and thought he would go on play for club in the champions league but didn't kick on when he signed for fiorentina. He had brilliant world cup which has put him in the shop window for top sides in the Premier league or champions league club. I agree England have defensive weaknesses, especially at centre half. Both our centre halfs lack pace so can be got at by forward with pace. Someone with pace to play alongside stones would ideal.

In attack England are blessed in my opinion, rashford solo goal last night was joy to watch.

If kane, folden, saka, rashford and bellingham came available to sign. All the top sides in Europe would be interested.