• Welcome to the ShrimperZone forums.
    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which only gives you limited access.

    Existing Users:.
    Please log-in using your existing username and password. If you have any problems, please see below.

    New Users:
    Join our free community now and gain access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and free. Click here to join.

    Fans from other clubs
    We welcome and appreciate supporters from other clubs who wish to engage in sensible discussion. Please feel free to join as above but understand that this is a moderated site and those who cannot play nicely will be quickly removed.

    Assistance Required
    For help with the registration process or accessing your account, please send a note using the Contact us link in the footer, please include your account name. We can then provide you with a new password and verification to get you on the site.

ElstreeBlue

Coach
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
601
Location
Elstree
Yesterday's performance was dire. I've not been able to make some of the much better games recently so if anyone should be complaining about how rubbish we must be it would be me.

What I couldn't understand from some of the fans yesterday and having just seen some of the posts on here is some of the strength of feeling directed at T&B. They can't get everything right all the time and we'd all have our own feelings about where yesterday went wrong. Many of our views probably differ. It might simply be one of those bad days at the office. They happen. We've all seen them before. Anyone remember an awful 0-2 home defeat against Col U on Boxing Day about 20 years ago that was totally unexpected? Or a dire 0-3 home reverse against Oxford in the second tier when we'd exceeded all expectations in that season up until then (and afterwards)? These odd bad games happen when virtually the whole team inexplicably seems not to have turned up.

Don't T&B deserve a bit of slack? Only one game ago, people on here were drooling about how T&B keep doing it again and again - building a team with limited resources, coping with a small squad, bringing in loan players with no money available and surpassing expectations. Given everything else that's gone on and how the players and management must be feeling with everything behind the scenes at the club recently, how incredible it is that, bar yesterday, in every game they keep playing with great team spirit.

I thought there were a few clear things wrong yesterday. The front two need to play as a partnership, but O'Donovan and Barney had no understanding and played nowhere near each other. There was little energy from midfield to support them. O' Donovan didn't look sharp enough yet. MacCormack kept breaking up every attack - ours! Friend needs to play a lot better to justify leaving out Herd. Barrett played more like some of Clarke's awful old performances. We lacked a spark - someone like Freedman at the end to take control. Maybe this is enforced due to T&B having to work with such an inexperienced squad? Sankofa DID roar forward down the wing but inexplicably his cross always hit the defending full-back. Didn't see anything from Friend helping forward on the other side. We played a totally patched up team at the back. T&B have to keep juggling because of all the problems - all these ins and outs can't be good. The squad never has much chance to gel with all this enforced chopping and changing. Once again, T&B's hands have been tied but have done a better-than-expected job so far this season.

Not saying T&B never make mistakes and IMHO they made some yesterday. I have my own opinions on what they got wrong. But what they did may be better than what I'd have done. I'd say they're more likely to get things right than me and probably everyone on this board. It's easy to be the manager when things go wrong and we all have our own solutions, and we're not the ones being judged by our decisions. They've done an incredible job at the club but won't get it right every time. Given that we should be fighting a relegation battle, don't they deserve a bit more than one poor performance before they're slagged off?!

Take a few different people around me yesterday. "Tilson never uses substitutes". Well there are two theories on this. One is to change it up and gamble as many seem to want. The other is that things can get more disjointed by using subs. Yesterday, Tilly did actually make a very early (for Tilly) double substitution (which shows just how bad it was), and if anything we created less and looked worse after that, so using subs isn't always the best strategy.

And the people who were calling vociferously for Tilly to make substituations then criticised him when he did do something. Making a substitution can involve any number of possibilities about who comes on and who comes off and at what time - and unless Tilly does exactly what we want at exactly when we want (and bearing in mind we all have different opinions), there will always be plenty of people who will criticise for "too late" or "wrong choice".

"Look at Tilson, just standing there doing nothing." This is ridiculous. Just because he's not ranting and raving doesn't mean he's doing nothing! And what does that achieve? Who's done better - Martin Allen or Steve Tilson? Tilly may not be shouting but that doesn't mean he's not thinking about what to do. Actually, I think Tilly's best quality is being incredibly level-headed. Far more than many of our fans. That's why he's so brilliant at his job and his results prove that. Things are never as bad as they may seem when we're doing badly or never as good when we're doing well.

I think Brush's reaction on BBC Essex was just right. Said it wasn't good. We didn't play as we have recently or how we should. Didn't make ourselves a hard team to play against. Didn't get in the opposition's faces enough. Lack of spark generally. Too many were off their game today, which makes all the difference - need at least 8/9 players each game to have par or above par performances. The players need to go away and have a hard look at themselves. He said, let's hope for a response on Tuesday. Just like Tilly, Brush also sounded pretty level-headed. He made no excuses for a poor performance but gave a measured response.

Thank Goodness T&B are managing our team. Yes, they make mistakes and they're not perfect. But they'll get it right more times than the rest of us. Their record for us over a sustained period is incredible. All I ask is we give them a bit of slack, especially as they have AGAIN exceeded expectations. Even if we have three of four bad games in a row or even have a relegation dogfight this season, I trust them more than anyone to achieve the best that can be expected in the circumstances for our club.
 
Last edited:

Southminster_Shrimper

Sir Kevin Betsy Fan Club
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
12,250
And hopefully a positive team reaction on Tuesday to what was a very very poor game for all pretty much. Anyone who looked good on Saturday wasnt exactly against much opposition really. I think I could of looked a good player in that game. ;)

Ref seemed a bit picky aswell so even if we could of got a passing game going nodoubt it would of been halted due to numerous free kicks.
 

OldBlueLady

Junior Blues Coordinator⭐
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
48,102
Location
Benfleet
And hopefully a positive team reaction on Tuesday to what was a very very poor game for all pretty much. Anyone who looked good on Saturday wasnt exactly against much opposition really. I think I could of looked a good player in that game. ;)

Ref seemed a bit picky aswell so even if we could of got a passing game going nodoubt it would of been halted due to numerous free kicks.

I think that might be debatable Gary!! You sure you don't want to come Tuesday now?! ;)
 

Hawkwell Blue

Manager
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
1,877
Excellent thread, football is not an exact science. If it was we wouldn't watch it and days like yesterday, inexplicably, happen.

It is ironic how the "easiest" home game to date was lost but we kind of knew it would happen.

Also, a thread like this will get visited to by Wiggy I am sure with his/her positive slant on things.
 

jassyfa1

Manager
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
1,500
Yesterday's performance was dire. I've not been able to make some of the much better games recently so if anyone should be complaining about how rubbish we must be it would be me.

What I couldn't understand from some of the fans yesterday and having just seen some of the posts on here is some of the strength of feeling directed at T&B. They can't get everything right all the time and we'd all have our own feelings about where yesterday went wrong. Many of our views probably differ. It might simply be one of those bad days at the office. They happen. We've all seen them before. Anyone remember an awful 0-2 home defeat against Col U on Boxing Day about 20 years ago that was totally unexpected? Or a dire 0-3 home reverse against Oxford in the second tier when we'd exceeded all expectations in that season up until then (and afterwards)? These odd bad games happen when virtually the whole team inexplicably seems not to have turned up.

Don't T&B deserve a bit of slack? Only one game ago, people on here were drooling about how T&B keep doing it again and again - building a team with limited resources, coping with a small squad, bringing in loan players with no money available and surpassing expectations. Given everything else that's gone on and how the players and management must be feeling with everything behind the scenes at the club recently, how incredible it is that, bar yesterday, in every game they keep playing with great team spirit.

I thought there were a few clear things wrong yesterday. The front two need to play as a partnership, but O'Donovan and Barney had no understanding and played nowhere near each other. There was little energy from midfield to support them. O' Donovan didn't look sharp enough yet. MacCormack kept breaking up every attack - ours! Friend needs to play a lot better to justify leaving out Herd. Barrett played more like some of Clarke's awful old performances. We lacked a spark - someone like Freedman at the end to take control. Maybe this is enforced due to T&B having to work with such an inexperienced squad? Sankofa DID roar forward down the wing but inexplicably his cross always hit the defending full-back. Didn't see anything from Friend helping forward on the other side. We played a totally patched up team at the back. T&B have to keep juggling because of all the problems - all these ins and outs can't be good. The squad never has much chance to gel with all this enforced chopping and changing. Once again, T&B's hands have been tied but have done a better-than-expected job so far this season.

Not saying T&B never make mistakes and IMHO they made some yesterday. I have my own opinions on what they got wrong. But what they did may be better than what I'd have done. I'd say they're more likely to get things right than me and probably everyone on this board. It's easy to be the manager when things go wrong and we all have our own solutions, and we're not the ones being judged by our decisions. They've done an incredible job at the club but won't get it right every time. Given that we should be fighting a relegation battle, don't they deserve a bit more than one poor performance before they're slagged off?!

Take a few different people around me yesterday. "Tilson never uses substitutes". Well there are two theories on this. One is to change it up and gamble as many seem to want. The other is that things can get more disjointed by using subs. Yesterday, Tilly did actually make a very early (for Tilly) double substitution (which shows just how bad it was), and if anything we created less and looked worse after that, so using subs isn't always the best strategy.

And the people who were calling vociferously for Tilly to make substituations then criticised him when he did do something. Making a substitution can involve any number of possibilities about who comes on and who comes off and at what time - and unless Tilly does exactly what we want at exactly when we want (and bearing in mind we all have different opinions), there will always be plenty of people who will criticise for "too late" or "wrong choice".

"Look at Tilson, just standing there doing nothing." This is ridiculous. Just because he's not ranting and raving doesn't mean he's doing nothing! And what does that achieve? Who's done better - Martin Allen or Steve Tilson? Tilly may not be shouting but that doesn't mean he's not thinking about what to do. Actually, I think Tilly's best quality is being incredibly level-headed. Far more than many of our fans. That's why he's so brilliant at his job and his results prove that. Things are never as bad as they may seem when we're doing badly or never as good when we're doing well.

I think Brush's reaction on BBC Essex was just right. Said it wasn't good. We didn't play as we have recently or how we should. Didn't make ourselves a hard team to play against. Didn't get in the opposition's faces enough. Lack of spark generally. Too many were off their game today, which makes all the difference - need at least 8/9 players each game to have par or above par performances. The players need to go away and have a hard look at themselves. He said, let's hope for a response on Tuesday. Just like Tilly, Brush also sounded pretty level-headed. He made no excuses for a poor performance but gave a measured response.

Thank Goodness T&B are managing our team. Yes, they make mistakes and they're not perfect. But they'll get it right more times than the rest of us. Their record for us over a sustained period is incredible. All I ask is we give them a bit of slack, especially as they have AGAIN exceeded expectations. Even if we have three of four bad games in a row or even have a relegation dogfight this season, I trust them more than anyone to achieve the best that can be expected in the circumstances for our club.

I actually think yesterdays outcome was a good result in the long run. A few scouts there yesterday watching some of the SUFC players and with our cash flow problem i don't know how SUFC could replace some of the players
 

yogi bear up the cagire

Life President⭐
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
15,336
Location
St Gaudens France
Yes, I was one of the people critical of Tilly's tactics yesterday and I didn't do it lightly.I am generally extremely supportive of Tilly and the remarkable job he has done at the club, on very limited resources. I did point out in my post that even Tison can't compensate for a team, in which the majority have an off day, like yesterday. Nor can you do much when the pillion of central defense is unavailable due to injury.
The thing that was so galling about yesterday was the total predictability about what was going to happen and the failure to select and to adapt to the kind match we were facing. It's not a new situation, the same thing happened last year against Crewe and Yeovil and to a lesser extent against Millwall. The difference being that last year we had very little on the bench which could have changed the match, which is not the case this year. Certainly, we could have started with Freedman, Laurent or Sawyer, or, we could have introduced them at an earlier stage.............and it wouldn't perhaps have made that difference, if the majority of the team had an off day...............but at least Tilly couldn't have been criticised in failing to opt for a more offensive and creative option in front of another team intent on stiffling the game.
My rant is over .........let's move onto Tuesday, when I will swing 100% behind Tilly and the players in the hope that we can expunge the memory of yesterday.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
1,761
Location
i live in westcliff
yes we are appaling and i knew we were always going to struggle im sure if anyone of you asked tilly who would have liked in his starting 11 this season, there would be many different names than what we actually see out on the pitch, we ARE LUCKY we have got Tilly and brush could you imagine any other manager that could turn this shower of **** round think of all beofre him, even Webb ro fry would struggle
 

ElstreeBlue

Coach
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
601
Location
Elstree
Yes, I was one of the people critical of Tilly's tactics yesterday and I didn't do it lightly.I am generally extremely supportive of Tilly and the remarkable job he has done at the club, on very limited resources. I did point out in my post that even Tison can't compensate for a team, in which the majority have an off day, like yesterday. Nor can you do much when the pillion of central defense is unavailable due to injury.
The thing that was so galling about yesterday was the total predictability about what was going to happen and the failure to select and to adapt to the kind match we were facing. It's not a new situation, the same thing happened last year against Crewe and Yeovil and to a lesser extent against Millwall. The difference being that last year we had very little on the bench which could have changed the match, which is not the case this year. Certainly, we could have started with Freedman, Laurent or Sawyer, or, we could have introduced them at an earlier stage.............and it wouldn't perhaps have made that difference, if the majority of the team had an off day...............but at least Tilly couldn't have been criticised in failing to opt for a more offensive and creative option in front of another team intent on stiffling the game.
My rant is over .........let's move onto Tuesday, when I will swing 100% behind Tilly and the players in the hope that we can expunge the memory of yesterday.

I'm not talking about people with reasoned comments, Yogi. For what it's worth, I also think T&B got a few things wrong yesterday, but that's also just my opinion. We're all entitled to our opinion, and we can say if we think they got it wrong. That's what free speech is all about and it would be boring if we all agreed with their decisions.

What surprises me, though, is how quick SOME people are - whether at the games or on here - to come out and turn on T&B with very strong feelings as if T&B are stupid/incompetent for not doing exactly what they think should obviously have happened. eg saying T&B don't get tactics right, or don't play people in the right positions, or don't use subs well, or aren't animated enough, etc. They speak as if managing is so blatantly easy, and they're the ones who'd always get it right if they were in charge.

It's so easy being an armchair manager - and no one knows how their decisions would have turned out. What T&B have done over a sustained period is incredible, and they probably know a little more than most of us armchair managers. Like any management, they'll get some things wrong. Who knows, the teams and tactics that many of us might have picked yesterday may well have done better (or may not have done!). But I'd be more inclined to trust what T&B choose to do than any other supporter including me - they're probably more likely to get things right more than the rest of us in the long run. As results have proved over 6 years, they deserve that trust.

Sometimes the team will have an off day. Sometimes the management get things wrong. It happens. It happened under every good manager we've had. It doesn't mean the management or their strategy overall is poor. I also liked their response to a very poor game.

It's not people having an opinion I have an issue with, but the way some fans think management is so easy and unless we're winning every game (with our limited squad and resources, and all the problems going on in the background), then the management are missing something so obvious - eg because they don't do any of the following exactly the same as they would: (a) play the same starting 11; (b) play the players in the same position; (c) use the same tactics; (d) substitute the right players with the right other players at exactly the right time; (e) show the same levels of animation; (f) sign/don't sign the right players.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Messages
1,196
Yesterday's performance was dire. I've not been able to make some of the much better games recently so if anyone should be complaining about how rubbish we must be it would be me.

What I couldn't understand from some of the fans yesterday and having just seen some of the posts on here is some of the strength of feeling directed at T&B. They can't get everything right all the time and we'd all have our own feelings about where yesterday went wrong. Many of our views probably differ. It might simply be one of those bad days at the office. They happen. We've all seen them before. Anyone remember an awful 0-2 home defeat against Col U on Boxing Day about 20 years ago that was totally unexpected? Or a dire 0-3 home reverse against Oxford in the second tier when we'd exceeded all expectations in that season up until then (and afterwards)? These odd bad games happen when virtually the whole team inexplicably seems not to have turned up.


Don't T&B deserve a bit of slack? Only one game ago, people on here were drooling about how T&B keep doing it again and again - building a team with limited resources, coping with a small squad, bringing in loan players with no money available and surpassing expectations. Given everything else that's gone on and how the players and management must be feeling with everything behind the scenes at the club recently, how incredible it is that, bar yesterday, in every game they keep playing with great team spirit.

I thought there were a few clear things wrong yesterday. The front two need to play as a partnership, but O'Donovan and Barney had no understanding and played nowhere near each other. There was little energy from midfield to support them. O' Donovan didn't look sharp enough yet. MacCormack kept breaking up every attack - ours! Friend needs to play a lot better to justify leaving out Herd. Barrett played more like some of Clarke's awful old performances. We lacked a spark - someone like Freedman at the end to take control. Maybe this is enforced due to T&B having to work with such an inexperienced squad? Sankofa DID roar forward down the wing but inexplicably his cross always hit the defending full-back. Didn't see anything from Friend helping forward on the other side. We played a totally patched up team at the back. T&B have to keep juggling because of all the problems - all these ins and outs can't be good. The squad never has much chance to gel with all this enforced chopping and changing. Once again, T&B's hands have been tied but have done a better-than-expected job so far this season.

Not saying T&B never make mistakes and IMHO they made some yesterday. I have my own opinions on what they got wrong. But what they did may be better than what I'd have done. I'd say they're more likely to get things right than me and probably everyone on this board. It's easy to be the manager when things go wrong and we all have our own solutions, and we're not the ones being judged by our decisions. They've done an incredible job at the club but won't get it right every time. Given that we should be fighting a relegation battle, don't they deserve a bit more than one poor performance before they're slagged off?!

Take a few different people around me yesterday. "Tilson never uses substitutes". Well there are two theories on this. One is to change it up and gamble as many seem to want. The other is that things can get more disjointed by using subs. Yesterday, Tilly did actually make a very early (for Tilly) double substitution (which shows just how bad it was), and if anything we created less and looked worse after that, so using subs isn't always the best strategy.

And the people who were calling vociferously for Tilly to make substituations then criticised him when he did do something. Making a substitution can involve any number of possibilities about who comes on and who comes off and at what time - and unless Tilly does exactly what we want at exactly when we want (and bearing in mind we all have different opinions), there will always be plenty of people who will criticise for "too late" or "wrong choice".

"Look at Tilson, just standing there doing nothing." This is ridiculous. Just because he's not ranting and raving doesn't mean he's doing nothing! And what does that achieve? Who's done better - Martin Allen or Steve Tilson? Tilly may not be shouting but that doesn't mean he's not thinking about what to do. Actually, I think Tilly's best quality is being incredibly level-headed. Far more than many of our fans. That's why he's so brilliant at his job and his results prove that. Things are never as bad as they may seem when we're doing badly or never as good when we're doing well.

I think Brush's reaction on BBC Essex was just right. Said it wasn't good. We didn't play as we have recently or how we should. Didn't make ourselves a hard team to play against. Didn't get in the opposition's faces enough. Lack of spark generally. Too many were off their game today, which makes all the difference - need at least 8/9 players each game to have par or above par performances. The players need to go away and have a hard look at themselves. He said, let's hope for a response on Tuesday. Just like Tilly, Brush also sounded pretty level-headed. He made no excuses for a poor performance but gave a measured response.

Thank Goodness T&B are managing our team. Yes, they make mistakes and they're not perfect. But they'll get it right more times than the rest of us. Their record for us over a sustained period is incredible. All I ask is we give them a bit of slack, especially as they have AGAIN exceeded expectations. Even if we have three of four bad games in a row or even have a relegation dogfight this season, I trust them more than anyone to achieve the best that can be expected in the circumstances for our club.

Couldn't agree more,bad day at the office, football is a funny old game etc etc we move on to Brentford. Get over it peeps.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Messages
1,196
Its the usual reaction from the Southend Supporters Branch of the results reactionary squad.Win a game Tilsons a God,Lose a game Tilsons a Muppet. It was a poor team performance yesterday no denying, get over it keep supporting the lads, and well done TBV for the singing.Come up Peeps it only a game, anybody who saw the 'Wounded, Documentary on BBC last week needs to take a reality check on priorities.
 

Shrimper

Life President
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
9,296
I don't get some people sometimes, i don't get how they shout abuse or complain about someone who has dragged this club from the bottom of the barrell and raised us to an respectable level. Without Tilson i fail to envisage us being in League One. They've done brilliant jobs but they can't always get it right. They tried to change the game and brought on subtitutes but it didn't happen and we move on to Tuesday's game against Brentford with optimism.
 

Clinton Baptiste

Life President⭐
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
7,978
Location
Leigh
I dont think many people blame Tilly, they know how hard the job he has is. We are a selling club who lose every decent player we seem to buy or nurture. I'd be surprised if Francis, Moose and Barney are here in 2 years time.
However I do think he boobed by buying and playing too many centre mids, at the neglect of wide players. The team is unbalanced and the creativity is absent due to persistently playing Macca and keeping Moose out wide.
 

madaboutblues

Lady Shrimper
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
723
Location
Leigh
I must admit that yesterday's performance was woeful but at no time on the walk home dissecting the game did I or my family even give a thought to slagging off T&B.
Yes it was bad. At half time I remember commenting I bet they are getting the hairdryer treatment right now - "you've got 10 minutes to prove yourself or you're off!"
However I think what yesterday showed is that early subs don't always make a good difference. I think we were much worse after the subs - no-one seemed to know where they should be playing or who they should be marking and Sawyer didn't do much to prove to me that he should be first choice on the teamsheet over any of the midfield even though none of them showered themselves in glory.

Anyway *breathes deeply* on to Tuesday

Up the Blues
 

OldBlueLady

Junior Blues Coordinator⭐
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
48,102
Location
Benfleet
I must admit that yesterday's performance was woeful but at no time on the walk home dissecting the game did I or my family even give a thought to slagging off T&B.
Yes it was bad. At half time I remember commenting I bet they are getting the hairdryer treatment right now - "you've got 10 minutes to prove yourself or you're off!"
However I think what yesterday showed is that early subs don't always make a good difference. I think we were much worse after the subs - no-one seemed to know where they should be playing or who they should be marking and Sawyer didn't do much to prove to me that he should be first choice on the teamsheet over any of the midfield even though none of them showered themselves in glory.

Anyway *breathes deeply* on to Tuesday

Up the Blues

Exactly right! I don't see why we always need to be finding scapegoats, especially in a game like that where the officials where particularly obstreperous and Oldham were playing the tactics they were.
 

Up the Shrimpers

Life President
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
8,013
I dont think many people blame Tilly, they know how hard the job he has is. We are a selling club who lose every decent player we seem to buy or nurture. [B]I'd be surprised if Francis, Moose and Barney are here in 2 years time.[/B]However I do think he boobed by buying and playing too many centre mids, at the neglect of wide players. The team is unbalanced and the creativity is absent due to persistently playing Macca and keeping Moose out wide.

I will bet hardly any of the current squad will be with us in 2 years. Apart from the odd player we now get through a whole squad of players every 3 years.
 

Mick

Life President
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
10,142
And the people who were calling vociferously for Tilly to make substituations then criticised him when he did do something. Making a substitution can involve any number of possibilities about who comes on and who comes off .

Not quite "any number". Disregarding goalkeepers, there are exactly 1,500 possible combinations for a double substitution such as we made yesterday.
 

Stats

aka Ian Poulter
Joined
Jan 23, 2005
Messages
5,029
Location
Parts Unknown
Mjones.jpg
 

Ron Manager

formerly Libertine
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
5,627
Location
Brisbane, Australia
muppets5-large.jpg


These two in attendance at Roots Hall again I take it?

It has always happened and sadly I think always will. Some people just love having a moan. I swear that if we were walking out of Roots Hall having beaten Barcelona 4-1 in the first leg of the Champions League semi-final you'd hear some people moaning about letting in the away goal :headbang:
 

grassroots

Coach
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
565
Our best wide attacker(Francis - on Tilly's admission) was put at centre half. Too defensive - we were at home for goodness sake - we showed our cards early and suffered for it. Poor team selection, transfered to the pitch and an awful performance.
 
Last edited:
Top