Hillsborough inquiry - verdict

[Napster]

This is nothing to do with politics. It's an enquiry into the deaths of 96 people at a football match and now a verdict has been reached is open to discussion about the case.

You can always ignore it if it bothers you.

Have you read the thread - it's been made political.

 

[AndyT]

Yes, two years ago.

I do accept that if it descends to that again then yes, it becomes so. Then if the policy is to continue to block open discussion if it becomes a political argument then thems the rules.

However, there may be people who want to contribute on here and discuss the actual case.

Issuing a blanket block on a thread in case it becomes sensitive isn't necessary, IMHO.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Duckenfield has been acquitted but I doubt a day goes by that he and others involved in this tragedy don't regret,sorrow and wish things had gone/been done another way.
Some lessons have been learnt on policing this type of event, others are yet to be fully understood by many.
Witch hunting was never a science but more a blame game and mob pandering.

 

[AndyT]

I think that's pretty much how I feel.

It was a totally avoidable tragedy, of course, and many mistakes were made by many people on the day and prior to the event.

 

[rigsby]

The big warning was the Bradford fire. Had there been fences then the death toll would have been over 2,000.

The fact the fences couldn't be opened in an emergency was not Duckenfields fault.

If you go on the Sky news site they show some footage of what was happening outside the ground at 14:50. These were the days when the KO was never delayed so as it got late the fans just started to crush more and more. That's the way it was back then and many on here wont have experienced it.

 

[AndyT]

There were a huge number of issues at play in this tragedy, as we know, but as @rigsby mentions, the stadium design was a recipe for disaster. There had already been issues with a semi-final there previously.

I actually attended a semi-final there in 1980, but luckily we were at the other end of the ground. I recall people saying we were lucky to have the larger open end as it was then, on that day.

 

[rigsby]

I was at QPR v West Ham FAC4 1988. The game was delayed for an hour with people spilling onto the pitch. Due to forged tickets and QPR stupidly announcing it would suddenly be cash on the day.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxyiyQEAA5U

I ended up in a crush outside the turnstiles at the school end. At one stage I was inches from getting in and then a sway in the crowd took you 10ft past the entrance. The game had kicked off and it took me another 30 minutes to get in. You couldn't get in but you couldn't get away from the wall either. At no stage did the police announce that the game had been stopped.

 

[AndyT]

By complete coincidence, this documentary just popped up on my twitter feed :-

 

[AndyT]

I was at QPR v West Ham FAC4 1988. The game was delayed for an hour with people spilling onto the pitch. Due to forged tickets and QPR stupidly announcing it would suddenly be cash on the day.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxyiyQEAA5U

I ended up in a crush outside the turnstiles at the school end. At one stage I was inches from getting in and then a sway in the crowd took you 10ft past the entrance. The game had kicked off and it took me another 30 minutes to get in. You couldn't get in but you couldn't get away from the wall either. At no stage did the police announce that the game had been stopped.

It was rife in the 70's and 80's. Penning people in and overpopulating the enclosures.

The worst I experienced was at Ipswich. Bl**dy scary.

Hillsborough was the legacy of the battle between crowd safety v. crowd control that raged throughout that era of football.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

It was rife in the 70's and 80's. Penning people in and overpopulating the enclosures.

The worst I experienced was at Ipswich. Bl**dy scary.

Hillsborough was the legacy of the battle between crowd safety v. crowd control that raged throughout that era of football.

I was at Wembley for the Manure v Brighton FA final, ended 3-3, had ticket in a Manure pen and it was hugely over capacity, lots had got in without tickets and when the surges happened it was terrifying, I could lift my feet of the ground and stay upright the packing was so close, no chance of moving or getting out for anything. That was years before Hillsborough but just a lucky escape that was likely being repeated game after game up and down the BIG fixtures.

 

[AndyT]

That was exactly my experience at Ipswich. At times my feet couldn't touch the ground.

 

[londonblue]

I guess I really wanted him found guilty, but that's not really the point is it? Since I've done Jury Service (see other thread) I've come to realise that juries really do take their responsibility seriously. If they have come to a not guilty verdict then you really do have to respect their decision regardless of what you want. After all, they're the only ones that hear all the evidence and are not emotionally involved. Don't also forget this is a 2nd criminal trial. In the 1st one the jury couldn't reach a verdict.

As it happens I personally don't think this is the most important trial. To me the more important ones are around the people that falsified/amended witness statements to the original inquiry which led it to deliver a wrong verdict. To me those are the people that need to face justice. But again, if they're found not guilty then you will have to respect the jury there too.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Whoever was guilty if anyone was, it certainly wasn't drunken Liverpool fans as reported by the "popular" press at the time. JFT96.

 

[londonblue]

Whoever was guilty if anyone was, it certainly wasn't drunken Liverpool fans as reported by the "popular" press at the time. JFT96.

At least that has already been proved with the Unlawfully Killed verdict.

 

[rigsby]

Its was £65m spent trying put all the blame on one man. The families seemed upset with the verdict because they felt it was their last chance of justice.

I know there has been several TV drama/documentaries over the years but does anyone remember the one that explained the bizarre circumstances as to why Duckenfield was even in charge of that game. I strongly suspect there was a culture in South Yorkshire police of let the new man in charge f*** up because our old boss has been wrongly suspended.

Back then then in a uniformed service you couldn't refuse an order or a job. Now Duckenfiled could just say no chance, I have no experience or training. The police authority would be held accountable for putting Duckenfield in charge. The the FA, Sheffield Wednesday, the senior officers surrounding Duckenfield and those police that perverted the course of justice.

Some on here don't like it but the focus was on controlling fans, especially Liverpool because 1000's of them would travel without tickets for big games. The idea of fans safety was non existent back then.

Like I say they have showed some more extensive film footage from outside the ground in recent news. If you look at that you can see why the order was given to open the gates. The design of the stadium and lack of communication lead fans to their death down that tunnel and the reason it couldn't be salvaged once things went wrong were the fences.

It was a long road over decades as to why we had fences and as we know from this thread alone there were dozens of warnings that were ignored. Just like smoking in wooden stands with gaps in the floor and pile of news papers under you.....Seems obvious but at the time it was allowed. Yes that can't happen now but that doesn't stop some idiot wrapping a building in flammable cladding......The lessons are never learnt.

Duckenfield should have never been in charge and no doubt would rather not have been even before the event. Nor did he make that decision with any bad intent and admitted his mistake whilst being told by others to cover it up. The same mistake would not have cost lives in a different stadium with no fences.

For those reasons he was never going to be convicted of gross negligence.

 

[londonblue]

So the Police have apologised and said they will change...except it's taken this long to respond (and the govt still haven't) so this cultural change doesn't really seem to be a priority.

BBC

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So the Police have apologised and said they will change...except it's taken this long to respond (and the govt still haven't) so this cultural change doesn't really seem to be a priority.

BBC

As you say HMG haven't apologised yet but they still might -34 years after the evemt.