Hungary v England

[* ORM *]

We're the 3rd favourites to win it, the bookies don't normally get much wrong.

Whether we’re 2 to 1 or 100 to 1 I predict that if you bet £10 you lose £10

 

[WestStandBlue]

Wouldn’t pay to much attention to these results, as others have said the 4 games in June and the other two in September are our only games pre World Cup. Therefore key that Southgate tries fringe players etc. could do with another couple of games before World Cup starts in November but don’t think calendar will allow it.

Anyway, ignoring the negativity probably be over 10k in Germany cheering on the team this week.

 

[* ORM *]

Although yesterday's performance was very poor, the England players genuinely looked knackered, especially Declan Rice. I also think Hungary deserve more credit. They are in the top tier for a reason and extremely well drilled, not surprising given they have an Italian manager.

I'm a bit confused about the stick GS gets, not just on here. It's easy to moan about the 'negative' set-up but unfortunately it's necessary because our back line on paper is actually not very good, hence the need for a second solid midfielder like Phillips alongside Rice.

For example, look at the 'golden generation'. Gary Neville, Sol Campbell (shudder), John Terry, Rio Ferdinand, Ashley Cole, etc. Look at our current backline. Kyle Walker, Harry Maguire, John Stones, Luke Shaw, etc. The fact that Maguire is arguably our best centre-back says it all. I think he's OK but has had a terrible season.

We have some decent talent going forward - the likes of Harry Kane, Jack Grealish, Bayako Saka, Phil Foden, Raheem Sterling, etc - but even then, in our golden generation we had David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Wayne Rooney, Michael Owen, Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard, Joe Cole, etc.

I'm struggling to see who in our current squad would make the latter team. Definitely Kane, maybe Jordan Pickford and Rice.

Basically the 'golden generation' massively underachieved, largely due to awful management and the insistence of shoehorning every attacking midfielder (Gerrard/Lampard in CM and Scholes on the left, etc) in the team, whereas GS has led England to two semi-finals and a final with a weaker team. I can't help feeling we would have won at least one of the tournaments that we only reached the quarter-finals of if we'd had a manager capable of picking a balanced team rather than one with top talent scattered around randomly.

I’d argue it the other way around. The golden generation was massively over hyped. Euro 96 and France 98 were the last meaningful attempts we had prior to the GS era. I get the fact that he is a defensive manager but we had the Italians by the throat and tried to defend a lead. I’d have accepted the performance against Hungary if Southgate had concentrated on football matters and said this is all about experimentation rather than focussing on political matters.

I still think this squad is capable enough of launching a meaningful attempt at the World Cup but world class players stand up, make themselves counted on the big stage and don’t hide behind played too many game excuses.

 

[Kris]

I’d argue it the other way around. The golden generation was massively over hyped. Euro 96 and France 98 were the last meaningful attempts we had prior to the GS era. I get the fact that he is a defensive manager but we had the Italians by the throat and tried to defend a lead. I’d have accepted the performance against Hungary if Southgate had concentrated on football matters and said this is all about experimentation rather than focussing on political matters.

I still think this squad is capable enough of launching a meaningful attempt at the World Cup but world class players stand up, make themselves counted on the big stage and don’t hide behind played too many game excuses.

Definitely agree with you on France 98. If we'd got past Argentina, I'm convinced we would have won the World Cup. Hoddle was a fantastic tactician and got the best out of the likes of Scholes, who was made for the free role in the 3-5-2 system and Beckham as well. Such a shame GH was a complete nutjob and lost the job so prematurely.

Keegan completely unravelled that and although Sven stopped the rot to a certain extent, his tactics were overly rigid and the likes of Beckham, who had the freedom to drift infield for Man U, was told to stay wide, which lessened the influence of G Neville overlapping; Gerrard and Lampard were cut in half by each having to cover for one another; and Scholes was stuck on the left. And all this despite being blessed with a solid defence behind them.

Hoddle and Southgate are intrinsically linked - GS played under GH as well of course - which is the main reason why I'm a fan of GS. I don't think he's a defensive manager per se; I just think he recognises that our defence is mediocre at best and one that needs protecting, even if it means sacrificing a more attacking player. I remember GH playing David Batty alongside Paul Ince in certain games so it's all about assessing the tactics needed to get results.

Regarding the Euros final, England battered Italy in the first 20 minutes or so and should have wrapped up the game but Mancini made a tactical switch in CM and it stemmed the flow and we couldn't hold the lead.

Like you I'm confident we'll go far in the WC, especially as the players will be in good shape; just hope they can handle the heat better than they did against Hungary...

 

[stewart]

Definitely agree with you on France 98. If we'd got past Argentina, I'm convinced we would have won the World Cup. Hoddle was a fantastic tactician and got the best out of the likes of Scholes, who was made for the free role in the 3-5-2 system and Beckham as well. Such a shame GH was a complete nutjob and lost the job so prematurely.

Keegan completely unravelled that and although Sven stopped the rot to a certain extent, his tactics were overly rigid and the likes of Beckham, who had the freedom to drift infield for Man U, was told to stay wide, which lessened the influence of G Neville overlapping; Gerrard and Lampard were cut in half by each having to cover for one another; and Scholes was stuck on the left. And all this despite being blessed with a solid defence behind them.

Hoddle and Southgate are intrinsically linked - GS played under GH as well of course - which is the main reason why I'm a fan of GS. I don't think he's a defensive manager per se; I just think he recognises that our defence is mediocre at best and one that needs protecting, even if it means sacrificing a more attacking player. I remember GH playing David Batty alongside Paul Ince in certain games so it's all about assessing the tactics needed to get results.

Regarding the Euros final, England battered Italy in the first 20 minutes or so and should have wrapped up the game but Mancini made a tactical switch in CM and it stemmed the flow and we couldn't hold the lead.

Like you I'm confident we'll go far in the WC, especially as the players will be in good shape; just hope they can handle the heat better than they did against Hungary...

I was never a fan of SVEN , To me the worst manager we ever had ,

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Got to laugh really. So the Hungarian fans are banned for being racist and anti-gay. So they get around the ban by getting a rent a crowd from school kids and accompanying adults. They then boo the take the knee gesture, and black players near the touchlines. Let's see if UEFA take any action over that. Let's also see if they close that crowd loophole.

 

[Kris]

I was never a fan of SVEN , To me the worst manager we ever had ,

He's certainly up there given the talent he had at his disposal. I remember defending him at the time, although that may have been solely on the back of the 5-1 win over Germany and assuming he was a great tactician when he wasn't really.

For me Graham Taylor and Steve McClaren were worse. The former was a very good club manager but his tactics didn't transfer to international football. McClaren was clueless and decided he would stamp his authority by binning David Beckham and Emile Heskey, who was cited by Michael Owen in an interview as his favourite partner up front due to his physicality. We failed to qualify for Euro 2008 and in my opinion that was solely down to the manager.

 

[blueblueblue]

He's certainly up there given the talent he had at his disposal. I remember defending him at the time, although that may have been solely on the back of the 5-1 win over Germany and assuming he was a great tactician when he wasn't really.

For me Graham Taylor and Steve McClaren were worse. The former was a very good club manager but his tactics didn't transfer to international football. McClaren was clueless and decided he would stamp his authority by binning David Beckham and Emile Heskey, who was cited by Michael Owen in an interview as his favourite partner up front due to his physicality. We failed to qualify for Euro 2008 and in my opinion that was solely down to the manager.

They were, I agree, though they were both poor international managers, they were both very good at club level.

I've said it before, Southgate is more suited to International management and I think he's done a great job.