"I'll make capitalism work for the people"-What Ed Milipede wants.

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/29/ed-miliband-labour-leadership-change

 

[Hotman]

Some of that is actually acceptable - minimum wge increase won't affect my staff as they are all well paid.

Why should banks pay more tax than other businesses (apart from them being "nasty") - I can understand preferential dividends to the state for those part owned, but the reason that isn't included is because of the mugs in charge at the time.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Ed Miliband would rather a cleaner and a banker both be on £100 a week each, rather than the cleaner being on £200 a week and the banker being on £40,000 a week.

Poverty is the issue, not inequality.

 

[Hotman]

Ed Miliband would rather a cleaner and a banker both be on £100 a week each, rather than the cleaner being on £200 a week and the banker being on £40,000 a week.

Poverty is the issue, not inequality.

Is he happy to earn £100 a week? I presume he tithes the rest of his income...

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Ed Miliband would rather a cleaner and a banker both be on £100 a week each, rather than the cleaner being on £200 a week and the banker being on £40,000 a week.

Poverty is the issue, not inequality.

Actually,I think you've got that the wrong way round.Inequality, on the scale Ed Miliband describes,causes poverty.:soapbox:

 

[osymandus]

Some of that is actually acceptable - minimum wge increase won't affect my staff as they are all well paid.

Why should banks pay more tax than other businesses (apart from them being "nasty") - I can understand preferential dividends to the state for those part owned, but the reason that isn't included is because of the mugs in charge at the time.

Because they are some of the largest tax evaders ? They dont actually make a product ?

 

[Hotman]

Because they are some of the largest tax evaders ? They dont actually make a product ?

I think that you should be careful what you write...


And you're right, they don't manufacture a product, but instead provide a service which is essential to the economy, and to individuals / businesses on a micro scale.

 

[osymandus]

I think that you should be careful what you write...


And you're right, they don't manufacture a product, but instead provide a service which is essential to the economy, and to individuals / businesses on a micro scale.

It was a question, not a statement of fact , do you know something we don't ?. Can we defermate verb's or nouns now ? Will the OBD sue ? Though due to my dyslexia i may have misread and though you mean a large mound of earth or river based onstruction silly me :P.
It is but like any micro service can be amended or changed ?

 

[Hotman]

It was a question, not a statement of fact , do you know something we don't ?. Can we defermate verb's or nouns now ? Will the OBD sue ? Though due to my dyslexia i may have misread and though you mean a large mound of earth or river based onstruction silly me :P.
It is but like any micro service can be amended or changed ?

I don't understand the sentences in italics.

And yes, the banks can be changed, and no doubt will with competition that is undoubtedly round the corner. However - I've had no problems personally with my bank, in fact am delighted with the service, and am a bit upset that my monthly account fees will probably go up to cover the additional tax bills on them.

 

[osymandus]

I don't understand the sentences in italics.

And yes, the banks can be changed, and no doubt will with competition that is undoubtedly round the corner. However - I've had no problems personally with my bank, in fact am delighted with the service, and am a bit upset that my monthly account fees will probably go up to cover the additional tax bills on them.

Alot already have (though the Co-op's methods are now being adopted more ) . Maybe its a change that is required where by the are no longer so driven by market forces along and become what they once we're just a place to store money . NOt unlike the mounds they are named after.

 

[Hotman]

Alot already have (though the Co-op's methods are now being adopted more ) . Maybe its a change that is required where by the are no longer so driven by market forces along and become what they once we're just a place to store money . NOt unlike the mounds they are named after.

That would only be effective for them when the nation starts saving, not borrowing. Market forces at play again.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

That would only be effective for them when the nation starts saving, not borrowing. Market forces at play again.

Like you I'm happy with the service provided by my banks, The Co-op in the UK and La Caixa here in Spain along with the Credit Agricole in France.
The problem is surely that the banks are not lending (except at punitive rates of interest)to anyone who wants to start up a new business or maintain an existing business?
Without credit freely available at a reasonable price young people can't afford to get on the housing ladder nor can entrepreneurs easily start a new business or maintain an existing one.

 

[osymandus]

That would only be effective for them when the nation starts saving, not borrowing. Market forces at play again.

Though it is teh same market forces that make people spend spend spend .... when they need to save save save .

 

[Napster]

Though it is teh same market forces that make people spend spend spend .... when they need to save save save .

why do people need to save? what for? give me one good reason why saving is better than spending for the economy.

 

[osymandus]

why do people need to save? what for? give me one good reason why saving is better than spending for the economy.

People don't use credit card's or loans for items they do not require . And did i mention a time scale of saving ? What if you just saved for a product you were after for say 2 -4 weeks . Rather then buying madly on your credit cards . It seems when you say saving its a dirty word ? Backup plan for emergencies . Long term funds that will be spent at a later date ?
I mean it's not most people at the moment have debts and overdrafts which is so good for a growing economy.

http://www.grant-thornton.co.uk/press_room/uk_personal_debt_exceeds_uk_gd.aspx

"
For the second year running UK personal debt stands at a higher level than UK GDP meaning the country would have to dip into the proceeds from next year's GDP to pay off all its outstanding personal debt, scratching out what's owed on 8 January 2009.
Grant Thornton research shows that the total outstanding UK consumer debt amassed through mortgages, loans and credit cards has increased by 7.3% to £1,444 billion over the past year* up from £1,346 billion in June 2007. Furthermore, personal debt has forged ahead of UK GDP which, according to latest available data, currently stands at £1,410** billion having increased by 5.1% in nominal terms over the past year."


Is this not a bad thing ?

 

[Napster]

People don't use credit card's or loans for items they do not require . And did i mention a time scale of saving ? What if you just saved for a product you were after for say 2 -4 weeks . Rather then buying madly on your credit cards . It seems when you say saving its a dirty word ? Backup plan for emergencies . Long term funds that will be spent at a later date ?
I mean it's not most people at the moment have debts and overdrafts which is so good for a growing economy.

http://www.grant-thornton.co.uk/press_room/uk_personal_debt_exceeds_uk_gd.aspx

"
For the second year running UK personal debt stands at a higher level than UK GDP meaning the country would have to dip into the proceeds from next year's GDP to pay off all its outstanding personal debt, scratching out what's owed on 8 January 2009.
Grant Thornton research shows that the total outstanding UK consumer debt amassed through mortgages, loans and credit cards has increased by 7.3% to £1,444 billion over the past year* up from £1,346 billion in June 2007. Furthermore, personal debt has forged ahead of UK GDP which, according to latest available data, currently stands at £1,410** billion having increased by 5.1% in nominal terms over the past year."


Is this not a bad thing ?

It depends. If the consumer debt is spent on things which in turn, kickstarts the economy, which means consumers get a higher salary, and can pay off the debt quicker...it's a win-win

Mortgages are debts. No-one moans about them.

Saving is all well and good, but it's spending which this economy needs right now...

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

It depends. If the consumer debt is spent on things which in turn, kickstarts the economy, which means consumers get a higher salary, and can pay off the debt quicker...it's a win-win

Mortgages are debts. No-one moans about them.

Saving is all well and good, but it's spending which this economy needs right now...

I can assure you, people do moan about mortgages!

It was spending that got us into this mess in the first place. Firstly, with the prime mortgage crisis (people borrowing more than they could afford) and then public sector borrowing spiralling out of control.

What's needed is a balance between spending and saving. At the moment the inbalance is that more spending is required, but any spending needs to be based upon savings. Banks get their money to lend out from savings.

 

[osymandus]

It depends. If the consumer debt is spent on things which in turn, kickstarts the economy, which means consumers get a higher salary, and can pay off the debt quicker...it's a win-win

Mortgages are debts. No-one moans about them.

Saving is all well and good, but it's spending which this economy needs right now...

Actually its balance . I agree spending should be there but the level at which the spending power was available to people was insane (hence issues we have now). I think the issue is of the why of products and services which determines their value.

The "how" and "what" mechanisms of capitalism seem to work well

Lol YB beat me to the balance part . I do also agree re mortgages , why do we use this mechanism when (ok not popular with some ) Islamic world and HSBC now offer it as 0% loan so people can have homes (at least that's the principle).

The balance we lack is not that profit should be done away with on essential services for basic living , but in effect some have gone to far. IMHO

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I can assure you, people do moan about mortgages!

It was spending that got us into this mess in the first place. Firstly, with the prime mortgage crisis (people borrowing more than they could afford) and then public sector borrowing spiralling out of control.

What's needed is a balance between spending and saving. At the moment the inbalance is that more spending is required, but any spending needs to be based upon savings. Banks get their money to lend out from savings.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps then, banks should be forced(by legislation if necessary) to lend a certain amount or percentage of their income from savings, to individuals requiring a mortagage or entrepreuners wishing to start or consolidate a business rather than just hanging onto the dosh, which is what they're doing at the moment?

 

[steveo]

Perhaps then, banks should be forced(by legislation if necessary) to lend a certain amount or percentage of their income from savings, to individuals requiring a mortagage or entrepreuners wishing to start or consolidate a business rather than just hanging onto the dosh, which is what they're doing at the moment?

Banks lending more money than people can pay back is irresponsible and should never happen.

Having said that its ultimately the responsibility of the borrower to make sure they can afford to pay back what they borrow, and in an ideal world people will save for things until they can afford them as pointed out by Osy, but these days nobody wants to wait a minute longer than they have to, to get the newest thing they want.