Interesting article about new stadia

[Rusty Shackleford]

I wasn't sure whether to put this is in the General Sports forum or here but I think the warnings about the sterility of a new stadium and its impact on die-hard supporters belong here.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/partone/081121

The most worrying thing I noted was that home teams struggled in their new pristine environments - Col Ewe seemed to find this a problem in the early going at their Subbuteo stadium.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

I wasn't sure whether to put this is in the General Sports forum or here but I think the warnings about the sterility of a new stadium and its impact on die-hard supporters belong here.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/partone/081121

The most worrying thing I noted was that home teams struggled in their new pristine environments - Col Ewe seemed to find this a problem in the early going at their Subbuteo stadium.

Has someone hacked Rusty's account....This seems to be a good, well thought out post without any sign of mickey taking or toilet humour in sight!!

 

[hamburgshrimper]

It's basically what I've been thinking all along, I don't think we'll really appreciate what we have at RH until it's gone.

 

[A Century United]

I don't see the connection. The whole thrust of the new design (bowl, seats as near as possible to the touchline, rake of seats maximum possible, roof designed to keep the noise in, home fans singing section behind the goal) is to give us what we very rarely have at Roots Hall - a decent atmosphere, even when not full. Roots Hall has one of the poorest atmospheres of any lower league stadium, and I don't think that from that point of view we are going to be missing anything. Roll on the new stadium!

 

[Firestorm]

I think the article is more a swipe at the design of the stadia , and their obvious bias towards the corporate fan, than a simple dismissal of New Stadiums.

Also in Football, the corporate boxes seem to prefer the loftier areas, and as long as it stays that way, hopefully we will not be similarily affected.

What I found rather interesting , was the opinion about away games not being the chore they used to be thus reducing home advantage. With Football this may include numbers of away fans travelling.

 

[hamburgshrimper]

I think it depends on what people define as atmosphere. Yes, the noise levels might increase, but the whole look of the new stadium (and any other stadium I've been to) is completely sterile. But if that means Southend being completely re-branded as a club like Reading or Wigan, I'd rather not have it. It's got no character, and do we really need any more (out-of-town) shopping centres? It's just a reflection of where football is at today, everything is geared towards making money.
Sorry about the rant.

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

I don't see the connection. The whole thrust of the new design (bowl, seats as near as possible to the touchline, rake of seats maximum possible, roof designed to keep the noise in, home fans singing section behind the goal) is to give us what we very rarely have at Roots Hall - a decent atmosphere, even when not full. Roots Hall has one of the poorest atmospheres of any lower league stadium, and I don't think that from that point of view we are going to be missing anything. Roll on the new stadium!

That's not what the plans for the new ground show though. There certainly is quite a gap between the seats and the touchline and the rake of the main bowl of seats is nowhere near the maximum. You can see what the maximum looks like when you look at the sub section plans of the new ground the small corporate upper tier has a rake of seats far greater than the rest of the ground.

Agree with you about the atmosphere and even though we will hardly ever fill the new ground the fact that 1,000 or so people that want to sing will be in one section should mean a better atmosphere than at Roots Hall.

Anyway still probably got 3 seasons left at Roots Hall maybe even longer guess we will have more of an idea very shortly.

 

[A Century United]

That's not what the plans for the new ground show though. There certainly is quite a gap between the seats and the touchline and the rake of the main bowl of seats is nowhere near the maximum. You can see what the maximum looks like when you look at the sub section plans of the new ground the small corporate upper tier has a rake of seats far greater than the rest of the ground.

Agree with you about the atmosphere and even though we will hardly ever fill the new ground the fact that 1,000 or so people that want to sing will be in one section should mean a better atmosphere than at Roots Hall.

Anyway still probably got 3 seasons left at Roots Hall maybe even longer guess we will have more of an idea very shortly.

Is that the plans or the CAD illustrations? Because Ron did say that he was going for maximum rake and tight to the pitch, and I'm sure that was repeated by Scrivs.

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

Is that the plans or the CAD illustrations? Because Ron did say that he was going for maximum rake and tight to the pitch, and I'm sure that was repeated by Scrivs.

It's the plans. Have a look on this link you can clearly see the rake of the small upper tier is greater than the rest of the ground (zoom in and it's quite a bit clearer):-
http://www.southend.gov.uk/resources/southnorthandeastwestsections.pdf
Therefore the rake of the main section of seats is clearly not the maximum.

As for the seats being close to the touchlines, well if you look on this link then the touchlines are probably about 8 to 10m away from the front row of seats:-
http://www.southend.gov.uk/resources/pitchlevelplan.pdf

Anyway lets hope Ron has found the £80m & building work can start soon.

Can't believe the date on those plans is 29th Sept 2006, doesn't time fly!

 

[overseas shrimper]

It's just a reflection of where football is at today, everything is geared towards making money.
Sorry about the rant.

When there wasn't an eye towards making money we nearly lost our club forever... on more than one occasion. Would you rather we stuck by our old principles and go to the wall or do what we need to do to see the club progress or - at worse - secure financial stability?

 

[hamburgshrimper]

I'm not saying that I want Southend to go to the wall, just that a new chapter is going to begin with the new stadium and I don't think it'll necessarily be for the best. Yes, there'll probably be a financial platform upon which to build and the means to buy better players, but the charm RH has as a ground won't be easily replicated. Ask most fans of clubs like Middlesborough, Swansea and Leicester and they'll tell you that the whole matchday "experience" has taken a nosedive since moving. You probably won't agree but I'd feel pretty gutted if my club turned into another Reading with their new, plastic, replica shirtwearing McFootball fanbase. I can't say I'd stop supporting, but I wouldn't bother going back as regularly.

 

[hamburgshrimper]

Anyway, the only reason why the atmos at RH is so crap is because people aren't allowed to stand. Sorry but it's true!

 

[A Century United]

Anyway, the only reason why the atmos at RH is so crap is because people aren't allowed to stand. Sorry but it's true!

Standing would go a long way to improving things, but I think the accoustics are so poor that you will never get a great atmosphere unless the place is packed out.

I agree with you about the success thing, though. I desperately want SUFC to succeed, but I wouldn't necesarily want/be able to keep up if they did, because they would (like Reading, as you pointed out) become pretty much a different club.

 

[overseas shrimper]

I'm not saying that I want Southend to go to the wall, just that a new chapter is going to begin with the new stadium and I don't think it'll necessarily be for the best. Yes, there'll probably be a financial platform upon which to build and the means to buy better players, but the charm RH has as a ground won't be easily replicated. Ask most fans of clubs like Middlesborough, Swansea and Leicester and they'll tell you that the whole matchday "experience" has taken a nosedive since moving. You probably won't agree but I'd feel pretty gutted if my club turned into another Reading with their new, plastic, replica shirtwearing McFootball fanbase. I can't say I'd stop supporting, but I wouldn't bother going back as regularly.

Really? I don't about all clubs, but I hear plenty of positive noises coming from the likes of Swansea, MK Dons and Reading fans about how they much prefer the new facilities over the old. Apparently, spending a penny without standing in other men's urine is quite a good thing when going to the loo at Swansea's new ground, as is watching a game without supporting columns spoiling the view, better leg room and good acoustics to name but a few benefits.

I will be sad to see Roots Hall go. Very sad. But it is important to realise that a ground like the Hall cannot provide the standard of environment the modern game requires, nor can it sustain a club with ambitions beyond scrapping by to survive.

To sum it up, the change is necessary, if not entirely desirable by all.

 

[hamburgshrimper]

Yes, of course there are benefits, don't think we should be asking Reading or MK Dons fans for their opinions though, most of the former and all of the latter weren't even into "footy" a few years ago. Don't think they can remember anything beyond Soccer am. If we want a sanitised family experience, then so be it, it's just sad to see that all of these clubs will soon be interchangeable, with the real fans becoming increasingly marginalised. "Pay-up, sit-down, ****-off." The new stadium and naming rights to match are just a part of the process. I've seen things change so much since I started going to the football at the end of the 80's, and, believe me, it aint all good.

Really? I don't about all clubs, but I hear plenty of positive noises coming from the likes of Swansea, MK Dons and Reading fans about how they much prefer the new facilities over the old. Apparently, spending a penny without standing in other men's urine is quite a good thing when going to the loo at Swansea's new ground, as is watching a game without supporting columns spoiling the view, better leg room and good acoustics to name but a few benefits.

I will be sad to see Roots Hall go. Very sad. But it is important to realise that a ground like the Hall cannot provide the standard of environment the modern game requires, nor can it sustain a club with ambitions beyond scrapping by to survive.

To sum it up, the change is necessary, if not entirely desirable by all.

 

[Jam_Man]

don't think we should be asking Reading or MK Dons fans for their opinions though, most of the former and all of the latter weren't even into "footy" a few years ago.

So the new stadiums brought in new fans then ?

Kind of answers the question as to whether its a good idea.

Personally a ground with unrestricted views where I can get my legs in to the seats (despite only being 5'8") and being able to have an exit within 50 metres would be nice.

Roots Hall has character but it doesnt have atmosphere and I look foward to a stadium with great facilities I can take my kids to.