Interesting Point Made Post match by PB

[Holy Joe]

MM did things differently ergo his methods were wrong. Bordering on a formal fallacy with the premise accepted as true but the conclusion is false. His methods, whether or not so different, got us to be a tight unit that has fallen short of a few points to get to safety. The shortfall is likely down to personnel and/or selection. Nothing to do with training. I said weeks ago on here that his side reminds me very much of a PB team, tight but lacking goals. Training methods may differ but the result is the same.

Football success is about three things: ability, perspiration and belief. It's anyone's guess which one we lack but for me it's belief. We have seen some good moments from our players and at this level their ability and effort is a match for a lot of the opposing sides. The belief however is questionable and no player needs belief more than a striker.

Back when PB was here previously I must have asked for a forward coach to be employed a hundred times because it was clearly something Brown lacked. His club management record is a testimony to that. Is MM any different? I don't know but he constantly tinkered with the frontline, prevented any striker partnership from forming and crushed the forwards belief by selecting mids and defenders to play instead of them.

If things are to change it won't be by continually doing the same thing and expecting a different result. If we employ a sports psychologist then sack him/her. They clearly are not up to it. What goes on between the ears is a vital ingredient. Coaches and managers are guilty of mathematical fallacies. Check the stats we were the better team. Players and fans often transpose logic with magical thinking: putting the right boot on first, sporting a promotion season scarf or wearing the same cack crusted undercrackers for each game in a winning streak. Relying on some supernatural agent to bring about success is very flawed indeed. Players need to believe in their own ability and the role they are asked to undertake. Much of that belief comes from conditioning but also from the manager. It's there we have fallen short for a very long time.

I hope you're right, because if it's ability, especially upfront, then changing manager will have no short term impact.

 

[OllieSteph44]

Clearly (correctly) not a fan of ‘the process’.

Can’t think why.......

He’s just starting his own ‘process’ surely ????

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Just seen the highlights.Really we did well not to lose this game.It was all Crawley.Though obviously not the result we wanted.Could we win away at Exeter and again against Col Ewe?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

He’s just starting his own ‘process’ surely ????

For sure it will be a different one from MM's,which brought us just 8 wins in 40 games.

 

[OllieSteph44]

For sure it will be a different one from MM's,which brought us just 8 wins in 40 games.

It was a joke for heavens sake!!

I’m also sure that it PB keeps us up or stays on in the national league, we have to be fair and agree, that his process is starting from a far better point than MMs had to?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It was a joke for heavens sake!!

I’m also sure that it PB keeps us up or stays on in the national league, we have to be fair and agree, that his process is starting from a far better point than MMs had to?

TBF as they keep saying on BBC Essex radio PB 's got a "free hit" on this one.If he keeps us up he's a hero and obviously nobody can blame him if we don't avoid the drop.The pity is that he wasn't brought in much earlier in the season ie.in January when MM proved himself incapable of turnintg things around.

 

[Blue Yonder]

It was a joke for heavens sake!!

I’m also sure that it PB keeps us up or stays on in the national league, we have to be fair and agree, that his process is starting from a far better point than MMs had to?

No embargo and no winding up order is definitely a better starting point. It won't stop the new bloke blaming the last bloke as happens every time. Sounds like Phil is going to take a sledgehammer to the 'processes'. No doubt if he isn't the long term plan we'll look for another new bloke in the summer who will start all over again. Hopefully one day we bump into the right man.

 

[blues exile]

It was a joke for heavens sake!!

I’m also sure that it PB keeps us up or stays on in the national league, we have to be fair and agree, that his process is starting from a far better point than MMs had to?

No. Brown's inheritance is 1 win in 10 games with now just five games left to turn things around as opposed to a whole season. And he can't sign any new players like Molesley did, despite the embargo constraints. Could hardly be a worse starting point. Good job we now have an experienced football manager with a proven record after most of the season in the hands of work experience staff.

 

[Rayleigh boy]

It was a joke for heavens sake!!

I’m also sure that it PB keeps us up or stays on in the national league, we have to be fair and agree, that his process is starting from a far better point than MMs had to?

why keep making excuses ... MM got his shot at managing a footbal league club and ended up 91st in a league of 92

life is tough - I should have captained England at Euro 96 - I should have started my pro career at SUFC aged 18 - I should have played cricket with Botham
- but I was NOT GOOD ENOUGH

it was not because i had cr=p boots

 

[kentblues]

PB might criticise the Bournemouth way of doing things but it kept them in the Premier league a lot longer than he managed to keep Hull there.

Nevertheless Brown does have a point. I've never seen us so woeful in attack. And Bournemouth, whilst difficult to play against, were as boring as ****.

As I think most will know, and accept if it suits, the point he was making is that what Bournemouth do in the Premiership in terms of tactics, approach and training are a World apart from what will work in L2 with the set of players we have. We saw similar with Bond.

What he said was of course correct and mostly echoed the thoughts of most on here for months, as do the comments about the need to commit forward with intent, and being less concerned about safety first. Being positive not negative. Hopefully, we don’t have the view of it doesn’t matter what is said only who says it. (BTW a general point not aimed at you in any way)

 

[kentblues]

No. Brown's inheritance is 1 win in 10 games with now just five games left to turn things around as opposed to a whole season. And he can't sign any new players like Molesley did, despite the embargo constraints. Could hardly be a worse starting point. Good job we now have an experienced football manager with a proven record after most of the season in the hands of work experience staff.

Of course PB is in a way way worse position- as you say one win in ten, goals threat dried up at an alarming rate, as you say no transfer window, and 6 games to change the approach and mentality.

 

[Leo210856]

So take the medicine balls out of storage, no working with ball lets now just work on stopping the opposition and hope we sneak a goal.

PB is a 30-35% win rate manager at best recently it’s more like 20% . He is now 61 other Hull his career really isn’t top drawer
MM coaching techniques will no doubt mirror those employed at Bournemouth add to that the advantages sports science brings in terms of plans tailored to individuals means team training is a whole different animal to those developed 20 odd years ago.

irrespective of all that such comments show a lack of class and for some players won’t have gone down well

 

[Wingnut]

It's that modern coaching manual all these young coaches go by ,that's why we are in this position mm ,Campbell ,bond,Powell all very similar coaching styles
No experience of the lower league s

 

[kentblues]

his record managing other people players is not great and need the players which subscribe to his way of working. This is my biggest issue with Phil as it’s completely different approach to Mark, whether his style was right or wrong,you need a consistent psychology running through the club from top to bottom, want to change a manager, fair dos, but that got to work with the structure of the club and we have decided to go chalk and cheese with this one.

Would love us to stay up but I personally believe, maybe incorrectly, we now have less chance than we would have done. And I don’t subscribe to the immediate bounce from a change, unless the manager has lost the dressing room which does not appear to be the case unlike what happened to Phill last time.

I would rather have had Chris Powell back for 6 games, put Mark and team on sabbatical and told to come back in June.

whether Phil will be here if we go down or not is the second concern, then we will spend 2 months rehiring a manager,have no squad and then when we do get them no pre season training and probably no forwards...

we all have different opinions and that ok, I will openly state that Phil brown should be no where near the club, I dislike as a person and a manager and others think he is fantastic and if gets out of this messy fantastic and we can look forward to 3 more years of Phil but I will be just as critical as I have with how Ron runs the club about him.

May when the players win he will allow them to eat pizza, fish & chips and various other take aways he did on the bus home.

Do I believe PB is a better manager at this level than those that have come after him. Yes. Does he ruffle feathers, say it as he sees it, expect his way or no way, fall out with players who don’t do what he is expects/likes. Yes. Is MM a very very nice man who probably gets on with all members of the squad and is well liked. Yes.

If the World was fair MM would be managing the side at the top of the table and not the bottom. And Steve Evans would currently be in charge at Barnet.

The good thing for Ron is that now the very nice manager has gone he will probably no longer take all the blame for the playing side. And the manager will be held to account. This is a good thing and will be refreshing if it means Ron is no longer held responsible for short corners that go wrong, and players having an allergy to the opposition penalty area.

 

[Floval Flyer]

Sometimes you just need a bit of Old Skool !

Welcome back Phil!

 

[kentblues]

So take the medicine balls out of storage, no working with ball lets now just work on stopping the opposition and hope we sneak a goal.

PB is a 30-35% win rate manager at best recently it’s more like 20% . He is now 61 other Hull his career really isn’t top drawer
MM coaching techniques will no doubt mirror those employed at Bournemouth add to that the advantages sports science brings in terms of plans tailored to individuals means team training is a whole different animal to those developed 20 odd years ago.

irrespective of all that such comments show a lack of class and for some players won’t have gone down well

Do we really care if it goes down well? We are 23rd in L2. Maybe if everyone was less Mr. Nice about it all we wouldn’t be where we are. PB’s win rate with us over 5 years was well up in the 40%s, with 2 play offs, a promotion, and missing L1 playoffs by one point. MM’s record in L1/L2 is? All that sports science delivered what where it mattered? And he shouldn’t tell it how it is and have an opinion?

I would rather have PB ruffling feathers than being told we after week that we are very happy with our attacking options, it’s only a matter of time being the goals start flying in, and the stats say we should have won.

I really wish MM had succeeded, and one day he probably will. He will have learned an awful lot from his time here and I hope comes back better for it.

 

[kentblues]

Just seen the highlights.Really we did well not to lose this game.It was all Crawley.Though obviously not the result we wanted.Could we win away at Exeter and again against Col Ewe?

Either side could have one it and the other not complain. If the highlights showed it was “all Crawley” then you have been misled.

 

[onceknownasrab]

As I think most will know, and accept if it suits, the point he was making is that what Bournemouth do in the Premiership in terms of tactics, approach and training are a World apart from what will work in L2 with the set of players we have. We saw similar with Bond.

What he said was of course correct and mostly echoed the thoughts of most on here for months, as do the comments about the need to commit forward with intent, and being less concerned about safety first. Being positive not negative. Hopefully, we don’t have the view of it doesn’t matter what is said only who says it. (BTW a general point not aimed at you in any way)

Strange then that in his first tenure he tried to adopt higher league tactics. The reliance on keeping it tight depended on not conceding because we were always going to score a limited number of goals. MM fell into the same trap. Profligate in front of goal was a term ascribed to both managers.

 

[kentblues]

It's that modern coaching manual all these young coaches go by ,that's why we are in this position mm ,Campbell ,bond,Powell all very similar coaching styles
No experience of the lower leagues

Correct. It’s why, by and large, it’s the experienced lower league managers that are successful at this level because they know how to get the job done and what’s needed

 

[kentblues]

Strange then that in his first tenure he tried to adopt higher league tactics. The reliance on keeping it tight depended on not conceding because we were always going to score a limited number of goals. MM fell into the same trap. Profligate in front of goal was a term ascribed to both managers.

Define limited number of goals? By comparison to MM or Sol or? It’s about results in the end which is I think amongst the very first points PB made. I don’t recall those first two and a bit years in L2 involving higher league tactics? I recall pretty ridged 442. In a way though who cares it’s the result that matters and I am sure we would be absolutely delighted if we started scoring at the rate we did previously under PB than we have been.