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Xàbia Shrimper

Spanish Shrimpers
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Messages
13,803
Location
Xàbia, España
"The United States has overstepped its borders in all spheres - economic, political and humanitarian, and has imposed itself on other states. Local and regional wars did not get fewer, the number of people who died did not get less but increased. We see no kind of restraint - a hyper-inflated use of force. The US has gone from one conflict to another without achieving a fully-fledged solution to any of them."

Russian President Vladimir Putin, February 2007​

"Moscow must understand that it cannot enjoy a genuine partnership with the West so long as its actions at home and abroad conflict so fundamentally with the core values of Euro-Atlantic democracies. In today's multi-polar world, there is no place for needless confrontation, and I would hope that Russian leaders understand this truth."

US Republican Senator John McCain, February 2007​


Now, where's that shovel and how much is blast-resistant concrete these days?
 

MK Shrimper

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
52,329
Both sides have too much to lose. Here's hoping that Obama bloke becomes US president and the USA can start to sort out these terrible messes they've made around the world under the monkey-brained Bush.
 

Bielzibubz

President
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
4,757
Location
Eastwood, the posh part of Rayleigh..
It was only a matter of time. Due to Russia's dominance in the worlds oil and gas markets Putin now has a podium from which to wield the clout Russia had during the cold war. Political rhetoric like this is just the precursor to far more serious situations arising.

Putin is by no means whiter than white but he is absolutely spot on. His motives for saying it may be questionable, at best, but has only said what a lot of us have known and felt for a long long time.

The only possible way in which America can hope to redress the mess they have made of things on so many fronts around the world is for its Congress and its Senate to haul back the power given to it by it's Constitution. To wrestle it back from the White House, from the corrupt corporate lobbyists that infest it's corridors and from the right wing Christian hawks that have had so much influence on both it's domestic and foreign policies.

It's started. Democratic power has been returned to Congress and The Senate. The American public are finally starting to wake up to the abuses of power going on under their noses (in no short measure due to the Internet and blogging, something even the Patriot Act cannot influence) After six years of Bush1t it's going to take someone rather special sitting at the head of the table in the Oval Office to turn things around.

Barack Obama could well be the breath of fresh air the American political scene so desperately needs but I fear it could well be far to late.:(
 
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MK Shrimper

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
52,329
I still maintain that an all out war, nuclear or otherwise, will never happen.
 

MK Shrimper

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
52,329
Times are very different.

Would Hitler been crazy enough to drop nukes on the USA / UK / Russia only to find his "glorious" German republic equally turned into a nuclear wasteland?

I can't see Putin / Bush (or whoever is president : let's pray to whoever is listening it's a democrat) going down this road.

A change in Presidency in the USA will hopefully sort this out and hopefully Bush's legacy be a footnote in a very recent bloody history.
 

Bielzibubz

President
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
4,757
Location
Eastwood, the posh part of Rayleigh..
[LEFT said:
Xàbia[/left] Shrimper;373183]
Hmm
... I think people said very much the same thing before war broke out in 1939.

Very different circumstances Mike. Technology has come a long long way in the past 60 odd years. In 1939 there was little alternative to mounting an all out ground offensive against Hitler. Also, the kind of enemy we'd face in any coming conflict has changed. Hitlers sole reasoning for his desire for geographical domination was built on an ideology, not on religous ideals or for political or monetary gain.
Only America and Russia process the ground troops in sufficient numbers to be any where near on par with those of 1939/40 and Russia certainly couldn't maintain a ground offensive the like of which I think your alluding to, the Russian/Afgan war of the 80's taught them that lesson.
 
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shrimptank

Coach
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
941
The only nuclear war their is likely to be soon is in my toilet.

There's not a nation in the civilised world that would end up nuking each other. It's the likes of the head hitting brigade that are likely to do more damage. They need to get a bit of a grip just in case.
 

TrueBlue

Save Our Southend
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Messages
22,503
Location
Hockley now on loan to Rayleigh
Very different circumstances Mike. Technology has come a long long way in the past 60 odd years. In 1939 there was little alternative to mounting an all out ground offensive against Hitler. Also, the kind of enemy we'd face in any coming conflict has changed. Hitlers sole reasoning for his desire for geographical domination was built on an ideology, not on religous ideals or for political or monetary gain.
Only America and Russia process the ground troops in sufficient numbers to be any where near on par with those of 1939/40 and Russia certainly couldn't maintain a ground offensive the like of which I think your alluding to, the Russian/Afgan war of the 80's taught them that lesson.

You forgot China Phil!
 

Bielzibubz

President
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
4,757
Location
Eastwood, the posh part of Rayleigh..
You forgot China Phil!

China poses a very different problem for the west to contend with Scott.

True, China always has and always will be a huge militaristic power with more troops than either America or Russia but in reality pose no threat to the west from a purely military perspective.

In stark contrast to it's Communist ideology it is far more concerned with pursuing a purely capitalistic economic future than threatening those country's along it's borders, or far further afield for that matter.
 

Bielzibubz

President
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
4,757
Location
Eastwood, the posh part of Rayleigh..
And even more worrying is the breaking news just announced by the BBC.

The Pentagon has just released a dossier purportedly containing proof that in 2004 Iran supplied Saddam Hussien with sophisticated military hardware that resulted in the deaths of 140 American troops.

I fear this is just the justification Bush needs to speed up the military build in the Persian Gulf and perhaps launch pre-emptive strikes against strategic targets on Iranian soil. However illegal that may be under American constitutional law.

Saddam - Nigeria - Yellowcake Uranium anyone?
 

chaco27saf

Manager
Joined
May 30, 2004
Messages
1,157
Location
Denver

"Moscow must understand that it cannot enjoy a genuine partnership with the West so long as its actions at home and abroad conflict so fundamentally with the core values of Euro-Atlantic democracies. In today's multi-polar world, there is no place for needless confrontation, and I would hope that Russian leaders understand this truth."

US Republican Senator John McCain, February 2007​


I agree with Sen. McCain. Russia is acting in a manner which is detrimental to the world. Their foreign policy is shambolic, mainly a system in which they will side with any country that will give them money, regardless of that country's political aims and character of the government officials. Domestically the situation is even worse, with Putin the head of a corrupt political system that uses fear to prevent opposition.​
 

Mad Cyril

Proud sponsor of Mark Molesley's white trainers⭐
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
18,229
Location
Flavour country
I agree with Sen. McCain. Russia is acting in a manner which is detrimental to the world. Their foreign policy is shambolic, mainly a system in which they will side with any country that will give them money, regardless of that country's political aims and character of the government officials. Domestically the situation is even worse, with Putin the head of a corrupt political system that uses fear to prevent opposition.

You would have thought they had learned their lesson after Rocky IV wouldn't you?
 
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