united we stand
Life President⭐
If he played for an U 9” s team we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Please keep up on rule changes :smile:
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Jack Bridge
- Thread starter mattitouk
- Start date
A percentage on any sell-on.
Payne and Bentley probably have improved over the last 2 years but seeing as they haven't been our player this season or the season before, I'm not sure what that shows other than we haven't been giving young players enough of a chance to improve in that time frame.
If White has improved it hasn't done much for his career as he's not in the starting line-up.
I hope Yearwood improves, I hope Elvis improves. I hope Bridge improves. I think they are more likely to improve if they spent less time getting splinters as unused subs and were given some more first team action.
I think him & he's agent will take any offers coming his way. He's clearly not picky about location, having trials at Bournemouth & Grimsby, however if a small local-ish team come in for him (such Barnet, Crawley or Col Ewe :smile:) he will jump at the chance.
100% completely agree YB.
Sadly though, we haven't been 3 or 4 nill up with 30 odd minutes to play so far this season in order to risk the result for the sake of giving them a proper amount of time to display their performance.
Here's 5 games where we could have brought a kid on with nothing to lose:
Rotherham 4-0 down at ht - brought on Robinson and McLaughlin instead of Yearwood/Kyprianou/Ba
Fleetwood 3-1 up against 10 men with 20 minutes to go - brought on McGlashan (after an hour) and Fortune instead of Yearwood
Doncaster 4-1 down after an hour - brought on McGlashan and Robinson instead of Yearwood
Wigan 1-0 down with 10 men with 30 minutes left - brought on McLaughlin, Fortune and Cox instead of Bwomono, Matsuzaka. Actually took off Yearwood. We lost 3-0.
Portsmouth 1-0 down after 54 minutes and creating nothing after it. Brought on McLaughlin, McGlashan and Fortune instead of Yearwood or Bwomono (when White injured). Lost 1-0
I'm sure there are other examples where things weren't happening and we needed a spark.
Like I said, I completely agree with you.
But I was referring to solely Jack Bridge (not Kyps / Ba or Yearwood etc).
However I do think he should have thrown him in against Rotherham, Doncaster and Wigan, we had nothing to lose. Or nothing to Win for that matter.
But I was referring to solely Jack Bridge (not Kyps / Ba or Yearwood etc).
However I do think he should have thrown him in against Rotherham, Doncaster and Wigan, we had nothing to lose. Or nothing to Win for that matter.
united we stand
Life President⭐
I get your logic on the first three, on the last two I think PB would have been. ( quite rightly) slaughters for bringing him on when we still had a chance of a point.
Danshrimper
Manager
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2012
- Messages
- 2,926
I agree that in some situations such as Rotherham players like Ba could have been given a chance but how on earth is throwing in two completely inexperienced defenders when 1-0 down with 30 minutes left against the highest scoring team in the division a good idea? It would have a negative impact on the youngsters confidence after they inevitably concede and reduces our chances of getting something from the game which wasn't impossible with the subs we made. We were putting on a lot of pressure and were unlucky to concede the 2nd on the counter due to a careless pass when we were attacking. I'm by no means Brown's biggest fan but some of the things he gets criticised for are absolutely absurd.
As for why Yearwood doesn't come on instead of wingers, the answer is probably because he isn't a winger.
When you're being stuffed and the fans are on your back , I can't imagine anything worse than bringing on youngsters ....
Also , why wouldn't you bring on McGlashan , he's been good for me as an impact sub.
You fatuation with youngsters is bizarre .. you have to have a mixture on the pitch and in the squad , players like Yearwood learning from players like Cox and Wordsworth ..
PB obviously doesn't rate Bridge , like Tilly didn't rate Hooper or Kightly. This happens, there are players that managers don't rate, for whatever reason , why can't you accept that ?
PB sees Bridge every day in training , you don't ! If he thought he would win him every game, he'd play him wouldn't he .. just so he could keep you off his back for a start .
Elvis has played well this season and he has made JD play better I'd say.
Yearwood has impressed when he has played, however it's his first season on a senior contract. We've signed them each on a 4 year deal ... , how is this not looking at the future ? Harry K would still be playing if saying if he hadn't got injured ! Smith doesn't deserve to play , as Oxley has been superb this season.
Ba , yes , you may have a point, I was impressed with him at MK Dons when he came on, I would like to see him start, probably insteaad of cox , but then again, for me in recent weeks Cox has played well and worked his nuts off. I'm not 100% sure Cox and Ba would be a good front 2.. I could be wrong.
Your match day squad needs the balance .. youngsters on the toes of the seniors whilst also learning from them .. , for me, this has been positive this season , Elvis, Yearwood and Harry K emerging ...
KiwiRob
First XI
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2010
- Messages
- 1,493
The problem with 'PB sees Bridge every day in training' argument is that if a manager has reached the conclusion that a certain player does not figure in his future plans, he may not be inclined to reverse that assessment even if the player performs well in training or in U-23 matches. Being a soccer manager is a very insecure profession, and managers must worry that if they open acknowledge they had previously got it wrong with respect to the capabilities of a player, this might call into question, in the boardroom, other areas of their decision-making.
I think 'TTS' has it about right. You need that balance of experience and youth. Kyps and Elvis have done well, but they've needed Ferdy or JW around them to guide and give them confidence. Organise them, so they know when to press a winger and tackle or when to hold and sit off slightly. I wouldn't under-estimate Oxley's help in this. I'm impressed with how much shouting and organizing he does, behind the back-four.
'Yorkshire's' point is that there were opportunities to blend them in a bit more and I do see this view, as well. For example, Ba was thrown on at MK Dons, because Ranger and Theo, for different reasons, were not on the bench. Ba did well, from what I saw. Had the former two been on the bench, guarantee you Ba would not have got on.
I wouldn't change the side too much and when the game is tight, if a McG or a JW is a better bet as sub, you have to go with them. That said, there are chances for the younger players to come on. The key is, though, they need to do enough in training and U23 matches to be in the manager's thoughts.
I think, as others have said, PB is swaying more towards Bridge not being in the plans. I think it's also worth noting that, though PB is his own man, no doubt others like Coghs and Kev Maher, may also feel the same way, as well.
It's also important to bear in mind that PB is under pressure to get results. By having a good season, last season, he is expected to improve our league position. He is also on the last months of his contract. He, Ron and a lot of the supporters, may not have the patience for him to spend a couple of years in League One mid-table, developing the youngsters.
Personally, I would prefer that over promotion.
'Yorkshire's' point is that there were opportunities to blend them in a bit more and I do see this view, as well. For example, Ba was thrown on at MK Dons, because Ranger and Theo, for different reasons, were not on the bench. Ba did well, from what I saw. Had the former two been on the bench, guarantee you Ba would not have got on.
I wouldn't change the side too much and when the game is tight, if a McG or a JW is a better bet as sub, you have to go with them. That said, there are chances for the younger players to come on. The key is, though, they need to do enough in training and U23 matches to be in the manager's thoughts.
I think, as others have said, PB is swaying more towards Bridge not being in the plans. I think it's also worth noting that, though PB is his own man, no doubt others like Coghs and Kev Maher, may also feel the same way, as well.
It's also important to bear in mind that PB is under pressure to get results. By having a good season, last season, he is expected to improve our league position. He is also on the last months of his contract. He, Ron and a lot of the supporters, may not have the patience for him to spend a couple of years in League One mid-table, developing the youngsters.
Personally, I would prefer that over promotion.
onceknownasrab
President
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2008
- Messages
- 4,473
Bridge might be a good player, the jury is out, but good may not be enough. He may not be an improvement on those we are fielding, or he may not quite fit with our set up in a match etc... For me, the answer will not be found because, like many in football, his opportunities have been too few to really judge. I do know that we have a small squad, with less quality than hailed, and I honestly believe we are merely consolidating this season. For that reason I would introduce more future prospects so that they can get the experience to be better for next season. Some will argue we still have chances this term but I doubt it and in business you have to take calculated risks/decisions. If we just carry on as we are and do not get promoted, we have thrown away a season. It's better to plan longer term and use this season to start moulding a team for the future. Let's face it, few of the current squad would do ought if we went up anyway, so let's assemble a side where the core has the potential to play together for some years.
Totally agree 'rab'.
The issue is, there might not be the patience around the club to do this. With the new stadium on the horizon :smile:, pressure seems to be on to get to Championship level.
I'm sure most of the players would be happier to be playing at the right level and integrating some of the squads younger talent in to the side. Most would struggle over 46 games anyway and there's a fair chance Lenny is off, so what better opportunity, once we have enough points to realistically stay up, than to start blending a younger side in to the set-up.
It works on the playing and business level, to do this, but we do have to be safe, first.
After Bristol Rovers away, we have 4 successive games against sides in the top 6 and some tough home games after the New Year, as well.
Maybe take a view on it then. However, the chairman and fans would have to buy into the plan.
The issue is, there might not be the patience around the club to do this. With the new stadium on the horizon :smile:, pressure seems to be on to get to Championship level.
I'm sure most of the players would be happier to be playing at the right level and integrating some of the squads younger talent in to the side. Most would struggle over 46 games anyway and there's a fair chance Lenny is off, so what better opportunity, once we have enough points to realistically stay up, than to start blending a younger side in to the set-up.
It works on the playing and business level, to do this, but we do have to be safe, first.
After Bristol Rovers away, we have 4 successive games against sides in the top 6 and some tough home games after the New Year, as well.
Maybe take a view on it then. However, the chairman and fans would have to buy into the plan.
onceknownasrab
President
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- Dec 31, 2008
- Messages
- 4,473
To be fair AndyT, I don't want us to go up as we are. We would require a complete restructure in terms of the squad and that would be a massive challenge. We should have been looking to put the building blocks in place, so that we assemble a squad that has more than a promotion season in it. The current squad has too many limitations. It lacks the required quality to even be special in this league 1, let alone after a promotion, and it is top heavy with 'senior' players. The decisions made, by whomever, have been a very poor mistake and one that is going to put us backwards if we don't redress it now.
Have they, though?
We've consolidated in a higher division and even pushed for promotion. We have a solid and structured team of managers and coaches at all levels within the club and some talented youngsters slowly finding their way into the edges of the first team.
I don't think we should under-estimate the value of the senior players off the field, as well. They've got us to where we are and on the training ground, I am sure they are helping to improve the younger players.
We've now bailed out of the loan market and have our own talent coming into the set-up and, from what people like 'seventies' and others have said, who see the youth matches and training, we really are pushing on.
Actually think we are in better shape than people think.
We aren't playing overly well at the moment and are still sitting OK in League One. That fortune will change, soon, IMHO, as well.
We've consolidated in a higher division and even pushed for promotion. We have a solid and structured team of managers and coaches at all levels within the club and some talented youngsters slowly finding their way into the edges of the first team.
I don't think we should under-estimate the value of the senior players off the field, as well. They've got us to where we are and on the training ground, I am sure they are helping to improve the younger players.
We've now bailed out of the loan market and have our own talent coming into the set-up and, from what people like 'seventies' and others have said, who see the youth matches and training, we really are pushing on.
Actually think we are in better shape than people think.
We aren't playing overly well at the moment and are still sitting OK in League One. That fortune will change, soon, IMHO, as well.
onceknownasrab
President
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2008
- Messages
- 4,473
It's an interesting take on things. Yes we have experienced players bringing on and encouraging the youths but the balance is wrong. We don't need half a dozen seasoned players acting as supernumerary coaches. We do appear to have a good youth set up, well done to RD etc, but with all the will in the world more of the kids will be released than those that cement a place in the first team. Too few, too late, to be the solution to our current problems.
Staying in this league for another season is not a negative if the club and fans can reframe their thinking. Taking the time to lay strong foundations for the team, will pay dividends long term.
If we suddenly bring in half a dozen youngish, quality players in January then I will reconsider the prospects. When I say quality I mean current skill and not some historic ability.
If RM has the desire to shell out like that, then brilliant, but I think it is more within our budget, to hold firm, give experience and go again next year.
Staying in this league for another season is not a negative if the club and fans can reframe their thinking. Taking the time to lay strong foundations for the team, will pay dividends long term.
If we suddenly bring in half a dozen youngish, quality players in January then I will reconsider the prospects. When I say quality I mean current skill and not some historic ability.
If RM has the desire to shell out like that, then brilliant, but I think it is more within our budget, to hold firm, give experience and go again next year.
I think we are on the same page on this one 'rab'.
As well as Dru, Elvis, Kyps, Ba and the like, I'd add Hendrie into that, due to his age. There's definitely a quality player in all of them and maybe integrating these five (not all at the same time), during the season could be a great thing for the club.
It's a devil/deep blue sea scenario, though. If we push on now and get results to make us safe, by definition, we are a few wins from the play-offs, so the pressure would be to kick on with what we have.
The biggest problem, as Clarky outlined on the radio last season, is that there is no competitive reserve team football anymore. Due mainly down to the ridiculous need to have seven subs.
If, each Saturday or Tuesday, there was a competitive reserve league, the likes of the above would be playing alongside JW, Nile, players recovering from injury and so on, against similar structured sides from other clubs.
I get that there are U23 matches and behind closed doors friendlies, but not sure they give you that edge that reserve matches did in the past, where players were busting a gut to get into the first team and/or try to win the reserve division.
As well as Dru, Elvis, Kyps, Ba and the like, I'd add Hendrie into that, due to his age. There's definitely a quality player in all of them and maybe integrating these five (not all at the same time), during the season could be a great thing for the club.
It's a devil/deep blue sea scenario, though. If we push on now and get results to make us safe, by definition, we are a few wins from the play-offs, so the pressure would be to kick on with what we have.
The biggest problem, as Clarky outlined on the radio last season, is that there is no competitive reserve team football anymore. Due mainly down to the ridiculous need to have seven subs.
If, each Saturday or Tuesday, there was a competitive reserve league, the likes of the above would be playing alongside JW, Nile, players recovering from injury and so on, against similar structured sides from other clubs.
I get that there are U23 matches and behind closed doors friendlies, but not sure they give you that edge that reserve matches did in the past, where players were busting a gut to get into the first team and/or try to win the reserve division.
onceknownasrab
President
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2008
- Messages
- 4,473
It is very unfortunate that our 'reserves' have too few opportunities/challenges to showcase themselves, learn and progress. This must, however, be the same for many clubs. Is it really beyond the wit of man to arrange friendly games between clubs on a regular basis? It might not be a league but at least it would be a challenge. All clubs have senior pro's, returning injured players etc that would benefit and that gives the younger ones the opportunity to pit themselves against better players.
I guess the concept of reserve team football went out of the window when clubs developed this academy structure, where lads of the same age develop together. Great, in principle, but it just leads to stale pass and move, non-contact football.
We've seen the result of this, with the likes of Adam King, neat and tidy as he was, but lacking the strength to mix it with 28 year old strong oppo midfielders. Luke Amos, the same.
Reserve team football would toughen you up a bit more. A young oppo centre-half would learn a lot more from trying to handle Nile Ranger, than a slighter built 21 year old striker, for example.
Take cricket as an example. There is still a 2nd XI set-up. Essex younger players, who have performed well this last summer, would have gained more from this and being around the first team, than playing club cricket at the weekend. I think the same, kind of applies with football. The U23, U21, U18 levels being the equivalent of club cricket.
We've seen the result of this, with the likes of Adam King, neat and tidy as he was, but lacking the strength to mix it with 28 year old strong oppo midfielders. Luke Amos, the same.
Reserve team football would toughen you up a bit more. A young oppo centre-half would learn a lot more from trying to handle Nile Ranger, than a slighter built 21 year old striker, for example.
Take cricket as an example. There is still a 2nd XI set-up. Essex younger players, who have performed well this last summer, would have gained more from this and being around the first team, than playing club cricket at the weekend. I think the same, kind of applies with football. The U23, U21, U18 levels being the equivalent of club cricket.
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