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Jack Payne in League 1

Ricky Otto

President⭐
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
6,586
Location
Chelmsford
I agree it is a big season for him. He had his bedding in season in 13/14 and last season he broke into the first team making a fair amount of starts so now he can hopefully kick on and show what he can do. All depends on how Brown plans on using him.

As for Jebb, I think this is exactly the type of player we should be signing. Someone who is young and probably rough around the edges, pick them up on a free and, I'd guess, fairly cheap wages and then turn them into a quality player in a few seasons.

Jack has yet to convince me he has got what it takes to make it. Agree it's a massive season for him. The midfield looks weaker with him in a 4-4-2 and in a 4-5-1, despite some great moments, he doesn't wow enough to jusify playing in the hole. League 1 should suit him more and I hope he does push on as there is obviously talent there.

Jebb is a no brainer as long as the medical is ok
 

RHB

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Jack has yet to convince me he has got what it takes to make it. Agree it's a massive season for him. The midfield looks weaker with him in a 4-4-2 and in a 4-5-1, despite some great moments, he doesn't wow enough to jusify playing in the hole. League 1 should suit him more and I hope he does push on as there is obviously talent there.

Jebb is a no brainer as long as the medical is ok

Although I agree with you that Jack has struggled some times to fit our playing styles, there is no doubt in my mind that he will make it in the pro game. My worry is that he will not make it here, go somewhere else and then really shine. I hope this season proves me wrong on both counts.
 

Ricky Otto

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Although I agree with you that Jack has struggled some times to fit our playing styles, there is no doubt in my mind that he will make it in the pro game. My worry is that he will not make it here, go somewhere else and then really shine. I hope this season proves me wrong on both counts.

That's a bold statement. There are many who have made bigger impacts at higher levels who have failed. I hope you are right and he does make it, but there has to be a marked improvement in his all round game IMO.
 

RHB

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That's a bold statement. There are many who have made bigger impacts at higher levels who have failed. I hope you are right and he does make it, but there has to be a marked improvement in his all round game IMO.

It's only bold because you pressed the B button when you replied.:smile:
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
8,059
Location
SW1A 0PW
Jack has yet to convince me he has got what it takes to make it. League 1 should suit him more and I hope he does push on as there is obviously talent there.

Not being funny or anything but there are a number of people that think that Division 3 will be better for Payne than Division 4 and I don't understand that.

Overall, the players in a higher league are that much more quicker, better at positioning, a bit more strength and more guile - none of this is going to help Payney boy.

He has talent as an attacking player but he needs to add bulk/muscle, his tackling back is poor, he is too easily pushed off the ball and at times play passes him by.

I think he can improve further and experience in a higher league will be good for him.

But I don't see that Division 3 per se is going to suddenly help him play better or improve his weaknesses.



Hash tag: FactEndofBellendsallround
 

Beefy

Life President
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Oct 27, 2003
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Old Leigh
I think the key with Payne is he and Brown getting together and working out what position they seem him actually contributing in. Is he a central midfielder? Is he a striker? Is he a winger? If he's a 'no.10' then I guess that is fine but it means the team needs to be built around him which I'm not sure he's ready for.
 

Ricky Otto

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Not being funny or anything but there are a number of people that think that Division 3 will be better for Payne than Division 4 and I don't understand that.

Overall, the players in a higher league are that much more quicker, better at positioning, a bit more strength and more guile - none of this is going to help Payney boy.

He has talent as an attacking player but he needs to add bulk/muscle, his tackling back is poor, he is too easily pushed off the ball and at times play passes him by.

I think he can improve further and experience in a higher league will be good for him.

But I don't see that Division 3 per se is going to suddenly help him play better or improve his weaknesses.



Hash tag: FactEndofBellendsallround

I think it will suit him better as the ball is on the ground more often, which is amassive advantage for Jacck competing for the ball on the ground rather than the air. The pitches as a rule will be better, again making playing the ball on the ground easier. Also it is not quite as physical. I think league 2 is a hard place for talented young players to shine, look at Cauley Woodrow, much better in the Championship than he was league 2
 

Jim Levenstein

Manager
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Jan 23, 2014
Messages
2,171
Payne not a CM, struggle to see where he fits in if 2 upfront, could try him on the left not the quickest but you don't have to be quick to make space and he's definitely got the ability with the ball at his feet
 
Joined
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Also it is not quite as physical.

I don't quite understand that - the players in higher divisions are better athletes (on the whole) and I just can't see opposition players "standing off" Jack and saying "here you are, have the ball and see what you can do".

I think he (Jack) will have less space, less time to think and have quicker opponents to get past/round.

I do agree that the ball might be more on the ground and the pitches will be better.
 

manor15

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Jack's biggest weakness is that he's a bit of a luxury player. He can sit in behind the striker, play the false nine kind of role or more of a deep striker, but he's not quite at the level where his quality is enough to warrant playing a formation specifically to fit him in. He doesn't particularly fit with Brown's favourite systems, and that's not going to help his development.
 

Jam_Man

Life President
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
25,545
Location
Southend
Yep its the same old debate.

Player with plenty of talent and potential but to play him we cant play 442 with two conventional strikers. With Corr gone we have lost the physical presence so if Payne plays in his natural position in the number 10/in the hole then we will need someone to lead the line.

I think he can fit into a brown system in a 442 as a deep striker, or as 451:

...........Bentley
White Bolger Barrett Coker
......Timlin ......Leonard
Worrall-----Payne-----Left wideplayer
---------Not Barry Corr

Problem is if we play without two strikers people (wrongly) complain its defensive.

Question is can he perform consistently to warrant us playing those systems?
 

chapperzUK

Guest
I guess we will find out Brown's plans during pre-season friendlies, but I wouldn't be surprised if he were to play on the wing or just behind the striker with 2 wingers (Mclaughlin & Worrall possibly) in a 4-2-3-1 style.

A bit off-topic, but I got slightly distracted by manor15's sig. Love the bit where Corr stops and hugs Barrett, sheer elation!
 

Ayrshire Blue

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Jan 31, 2008
Messages
17,238
Jack's biggest weakness is that he's a bit of a luxury player. He can sit in behind the striker, play the false nine kind of role or more of a deep striker, but he's not quite at the level where his quality is enough to warrant playing a formation specifically to fit him in. He doesn't particularly fit with Brown's favourite systems, and that's not going to help his development.

Bang on. The kid obviously has bags of ability and potential but I still don't think Brown knows his best position
 

RHB

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It's very easy to forget that Jack Payne has only recently emerged from Ricky Duncan's nest of young talent. Because he is 'one of our own' we want him to fit our expectations, not dissimilar to Bentley's rise to fame. He is undoubtedly a talented footballer and, given time and maybe a bit more weight, he will be a very useful player.

Because we have had him in the side and he has scored goals when others haven't, he is seen by some as 'an attacking answer' around whom a team should be built. Others see him as a work in progress, and I fall into that camp. At the end of the day, the only person who matters in this respect is Phil Brown. He will dictate the pace that Jack develops/plays at and all we can do is watch patiently.
 

Bearded Shrimper

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Sep 8, 2011
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South London
i think we have to beware of writing him off too early, especially if he plays in the AMC or Number 10 role. It's a tough role for a youngster as basically the whole team is shaped around that player and they are responsible for most of the team's play. that's why I think that easing Jack in out wide with a view to him going central would be a good solution.

but he's clearly got something and we should be looking to keep him around until about the age of 22 or even older to give him time to prove his worth
 

wakes123

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Aug 8, 2011
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Westcliff-On-Sea
I honestly think he will have a break through season next season, I'm not sure in what position (I still maintain he can play left mid in a 4-4-2) but I think it will be a big season for him. He's got the natural talent it's so clear to me, he just needs to tweak some areas of his game, and get on the weights a bit.
 

leeblue

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Aug 22, 2006
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8,415
Location
On the seafront c c csiders
I've always thought jack would actually benefit by playing at a higher level.....where more 'football' is played. Played behind a big strong pacy forward....could be very good.
 

chapperzUK

Guest
If we compare his progress to Moussa (:Worthy:), then you can see some similarity.

Moussa's first real season in the first team was 2007/08 (05/06 made 1 sub appearances & 4 appearances in 06/07) when he made 20 appearances with most as a sub. The following season started well, 3 starts before getting sent off against Brighton and was sent on loan to League 2 Wycombe. He managed 38 appearances that season (9 for Wycombe) scoring twice (one against Col Ewe). The following season would be the one where he really kicked on, playing 46 games (only 2 as a sub and missing 3 games due to suspension) producing 5 goals and 3 assists. I firmly believe that had he stayed with us, he would have been a key player in League 1, let alone League 2.

In Payne's first season (13/14), he made 15 appearances and most as a sub. In the season just gone, he made 38 appearances as well having 5 times more game time than in the previous season. He was quite productive too, scoring 8 goals and 5 assists. Hopefully, he can follow the same path as Moussa and we will see him flourish in the next few seasons.
 

danburyshrimper

Manager
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,103
Can only see Jack as a sub , to come on if we are losing and struggling to break a teams stubborn defence down , and play him in the hole between the front 2 .

If he were to start a game i can only think it needs to be wide left . His lack of pace would stop him being a rampaging winger but his quality on the ball could become more apparent especially with a Coker over lapping him.

Yes he needs to bulk up a bit but his main let down is his decision making for me .... he so often runs down a blind alley into trouble whereas when he picks out a pass he looks much better, also his asset is when he is running off the ball into space.... if he plays wide he can do this with ease.
 

5scoops

Coach
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
830
Panye needs time to build up in upper body strength ,and that takes years with the right s and c coach . he got the skill I hope southend fitness team up to to it .
still going to be a great player
 
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