Jail the ex Nazi?

[Berrichonne shrimper]

A 93 year old ex Auschwitz soilder by the name of Oskar Groening is up on trial for accessory to 3000,000 murders as his job was to detail all the gold and belongings of the imates that were at the camp and could face up to 15 years in prison.
i am in the hell yer camp but what do other zoners think,to late for justice or was he just following orders or is he too old and just let him die in peace.
I for one am in favor of the Israelis way of justice where if a prisoner dies then they stick them in a numbered grave for the whole length of the term so i would give him his time in court and if found guilty put him away and if he dies put him in the ground for the whole term.
Any thoughts?

 

[Pubey]

I'd put him up for trial and consider a non-custodial sentence (under license, for example). He offers no threat to anyone and there's little point in the state becoming responsible for his inevitably expensive end-of-life care.

I'd also make it mandatory for him to make a public apology. Otherwise he gets banged up in gen-pop (sorry, been watching Oz recently).

 

[RobM]

Under orders, disobey and get shot - or worse.

 

[Mad Cyril]

Jail him...

 

[Crawliano]

If he opened Das Evening Echo and applied for the job himself then throw away the key.

If he was drafted in and given that job then I doubt anyone would have said "nah, I'd sooner not" as you'd be killed.

 

[londonblue]

If he opened Das Evening Echo and applied for the job himself then throw away the key.

If he was drafted in and given that job then I doubt anyone would have said "nah, I'd sooner not" as you'd be killed.

You realise that isn't true don't you? There is plenty of evidence (let's face it, whatever else you think of the Nazis, they were serious bureaucrats) of guards asking to be reassigned away from the camps.

However, what was the alternative? Probably a transfer to the Eastern front where they would have had to actually fight and run the risk of being killed.

Simply put, they didn't have to if they didn't want to. They did it because it was the least bad alternative in their eyes.

However, this was only the SS. Many of the really nasty jobs such as clearing out the gas chambers were given to citizens of the occupied countries, such as Poles. Some of these people relished the role, but they would undoubtedly have been killed if they objected.

 

[mattytheshrimper]

Went to Krakow in March and it was a real experience to see this first hand. After hearing the stories etc I would say lock him up!!!

 

[steveo]

The job looked like a soft option and as long as he took it he wouldn't have to do anything worse so if that's the case I cant blame him for doing it. Not even worth going to trial with.

 

[LCBB72]

Any one who had a hand in hurting any of those little Jewish children should stand trail , I do not care how old he is, hang the *******

 

[OldBlueLady]

Similar thought process to Pubey on this one, yes, he should stand trial. He should at least be made to feel culpable for the actions that he went through, albeit on orders. However, jailing a 93 year old man is not going to benefit anyone in this case, a public apology to be made and then a "sentence" of living out his days with the knowledge that those around him know of his part.

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

9 replies and only one wanting poor old Oskar killed,you are a very forgiving bunch.

 

[wakes123]

Similar thought process to Pubey on this one, yes, he should stand trial. He should at least be made to feel culpable for the actions that he went through, albeit on orders. However, jailing a 93 year old man is not going to benefit anyone in this case, a public apology to be made and then a "sentence" of living out his days with the knowledge that those around him know of his part.

I think people are not holding enough weight to this point. You have an order from the government, and will likely be killed if you do not obey this order. What are you going to do? (my opinion is pretty much everyone will obey this order, even though what you are being asked to do is an atrocity). Prison sentence is ridiculous imo, especially given his age, and the above scenario seems sensible to me.

 

[Eastblack]

Similar thought process to Pubey on this one, yes, he should stand trial. He should at least be made to feel culpable for the actions that he went through, albeit on orders. However, jailing a 93 year old man is not going to benefit anyone in this case, a public apology to be made and then a "sentence" of living out his days with the knowledge that those around him know of his part.

Maybe those survivors might feel they are finally getting some justice?

I think they other issue is one of precedent. He should be tried and if convicted he should be punished, irrespective of age. It's fair to say that the regime he supported made no such considerations, so he can't argue that isn't fair.

 

[rigsby]

As we have decided not to prosecute former Labour MP Greville Janner for raping children in care homes. The term double standards comes to mind. Some of the reasons given were, he's to old, it was along time ago and to ill to go to prison. Still I suppose old Greville could always say I was acting under orders.

 

[londonblue]

I think people are not holding enough weight to this point. You have an order from the government, and will likely be killed if you do not obey this order. What are you going to do? (my opinion is pretty much everyone will obey this order, even though what you are being asked to do is an atrocity). Prison sentence is ridiculous imo, especially given his age, and the above scenario seems sensible to me.

Do what plenty of others did, and ask for a transfer.

 

[united we stand]

The 'following orders' argument is irrelevant- that is for the Jury and Judge to decide (Judge in his summing up and instructions to the jury).

He should stand trial 100%

 

[southendkid]

His job was to count stuff, not to actually take part in the executions himself. Whilst he could have transferred away what would be the point in that? Either way he would be supporting the Nazis, and odds are the job he got given instead would be a lot more harmful to people than just counting their belongings. Being further away from the horrors doesn't change the fact he knows they are happening. He could take the third option and be killed himself for defecting but how many people have the courage to give up their own life to not support something that would carry on anyway even if you said no?

 

[londonblue]

His job was to count stuff, not to actually take part in the executions himself. Whilst he could have transferred away what would be the point in that? Either way he would be supporting the Nazis, and odds are the job he got given instead would be a lot more harmful to people than just counting their belongings. Being further away from the horrors doesn't change the fact he knows they are happening. He could take the third option and be killed himself for defecting but how many people have the courage to give up their own life to not support something that would carry on anyway even if you said no?

I guess that is the point of the court case. If he is found to be guilty of only that, and that doesn't warrant a custodial sentence then he won't be jailed. If he is found to be not guilty (although that seems unlikely given his "confessions") then he won't go to jail.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

If he's 93 he's going to be dead before he's tried and convicted.

 

[Uncle Leo]

As we have decided not to prosecute former Labour MP Greville Janner for raping children in care homes. The term double standards comes to mind. Some of the reasons given were, he's to old, it was along time ago and to ill to go to prison. Still I suppose old Greville could always say I was acting under orders.

Well for one, the Groening case is in Germany and the Janner one in UK, so you have different people making the decision. So the notion of double standards is not really relevant.

My take is that he should stand trial. Sentence to be dependent on the outcome.

Incidentally, Janner should stand trial too.